Open Passing?????

[farrout]

This thread started off with a specific purpose. It has met that purpose.

When a thread slides off into the realm of personal rants, I am done with it. Goodbye

[FVee90]

I'm done with it too Craig the last statement by Vince is at best a total in his mind fabrication of the lack of involvement to conduct a RR event.

[JohnW8]

Well, another productive thread shot to hell.

[87RX7RACER]

Well, another productive thread shot to hell.

Hey, just because a few people out there want to be in denial doesn't mean we can't still have a meaningful discussion about passing zones John.

I'm not going to reply to Mark's comments, as this would put us farther off topic and would most likely be a waste of my time. We all know about the problems that face us in our sport, and bickering about them on a forum isn't going to do anything to solve those problems. Like John has said it's up to ALL OF US to make changes for the better.

And I realize that some of this is my fault as we did get a little off topic. Shame on me for that, as I should of started a new thread. But apparently I'm the dark horse in the room for being up front and honest about things. I don't have all of the answers, never claimed too. All I have ever wanted was to see as many people involved in the TT program as possible and to make new friends along the way by competing and good fellowship. So far I have tried my best to do that, but I am much closer to the beginning of this journey than I am to the end.

That said, here is what I propose:

First session out, passing on the straights with a point. Remaining sessions open passing(on the tracks that support it) with a point. We can try this and see how it works. If WE don't like it then WE can always change it. If other regions are having success with this then there is no reason why we can't either.

Maybe we should start a poll or something?

[FVee90]

Back on topic - Vincent and I will talk at TGPR
Before any discussion on open passing you must consider these before making a decision:
Do you have enough workers - To do the RR portion at Barber the corner stations must have workers (not just bodies) who know/have experience including fire suppression. I am not worried about the workers at Barber so that could be checked off the list.
Enough Room? Barber has the room for side to side passing in most places and if people are trying in turn 8 well hopefully that isn't a problem area
So in my opinion yes for open passing at Barber

TGPR not so much at this time because the number of workers at corners are low and 2 people at each station is not nearly a given.
TGPR is not as wide in the turns and while I have heard different Mr. Upchurch told me several years ago no passing in the turns (but people have told me otherwise). I cannot see two GTA cars side by side at speed in several turns and I think many agree on that. An added passing zone between the horseshoe and skid pad is doable with enough workers on station.

[JohnW8]

I'm not going to reply to Mark's comments, as this would put us farther off topic and would most likely be a waste of my time. We all know about the problems that face us in our sport, and bickering about them on a forum isn't going to do anything to solve those problems.

It would be a waste of time because you are the one who came in bickering.

Maybe we should start a poll or something?

Done.

[farrout]

From the answers I got from drivers:

	TT	RR
1	41%	17%
2	5%	8%
3	27%	33%
4	27%	42%
Total	22	12

There may be others but that is all I can glean from the email responses and the forum discussions. It is enough to tell me that there is room for change

[DelanieC]

First session out, passing on the straights with a point. Remaining sessions open passing(on the tracks that support it) with a point.

I vote for this!! After we were gridded by times I had no problems anyway.

And for the record, I would've hung around on Sunday for the possibility of more track time after the races and I know several other near-novices would have as well.

More discussion is nearly always a good thing. Let's try and not let feelings get hurt and keep the ideas coming. When people are afraid to present ideas then we're really in trouble.

[JohnW8]

It looks like the majority of the Road Racers polled want open passing, while the majority of Time Trialers want to leave things as is and have proof one has been to the drivers meeting.
Is that correct?

Yes sir. That is a pickle.

[FVee90]

Not surprising since RRers are used to this in qualifying and the races - plus I am assuming the flaggers are used to the RR way (at Barber). Not impossible but....
Let me ask this after the morning session did the passing in turns get worse or better? The videos Delanie posted of the red RX7 is someone that is that slow in turns all the time and that car can take off in the straights - we will need to talk to him again but this isn't the first time this and several other drivers tend to cram people up in the turns and go to warp drive on the straights.

[JohnW8]

I only drove the first 2 sessions of the Saturday TT. THere were only passing infractions in the first session. 3 Spec Miatas wanting to get to some clear track as a group. Understandable.

In the 2nd session, I had no problems and no corner passers. Gridding by speed makes a difference.

[rodhx]

The only illegal passing I saw was first session Saturday. Driver passed me and one other car into/through turn 12. No problems any other session.

[engled]

I refuse to participate in this poll, the standard sandbox answer is not available.

[tonyTIGERX8]

Hey, that's the first time I've seen the poll thingy; adds some democracy to the system!

Anyway, just wanted to say that gridding by time works very well for us TTers. At Barber, I (Miata) ran with Big Fenders and the first session seemed to be mostly a free for all. It was fun mixing it up but I knew I wasn't going to get my best time in. After being sorted, MUCH more space. I personally am fine with passing anywhere with point by but I will be pointing by only in straights (which I will say is good for the following few turns as well). I'm too busy working the wheel/car while in the turns. I do plan on keeping my race line though for time/goal ... bit more risk with open RR type passing.

[rodhx]

I personally am fine with passing anywhere with point by but I will be pointing by only in straights (which I will say is good for the following few turns as well). I'm too busy working the wheel/car while in the turns.

I've been thinking the same thing Tony. I think I prefer the thought of open passing versus taking a hand off the wheel in a turn.