Open Passing?????

[DelanieC]

Hah, it was very similar to a particular red Corvette ....

[jledford]

This is why I would like to pass in the corners .....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdXod7U6sBI

Says both vids are private, I can't watch them.

[DelanieC]

Oops. Fixed!

[farrout]

I have had around 25-30 responses so far from both TT and RR. It looks like option #2 is DOA. Responses for the other 3 options are evenly distributed.

One option that I did not initially put down but has been mentioned by a few is to do passing anywhere with a point-by.

[rodhx]

I have had around 25-30 responses so far from both TT and RR. It looks like option #2 is DOA.

I know almost all the discussion has been about passing in turns but it seems like option #2 is the logical "baby step" to free things up a bit. I would have expected more takers. It does seem like a great way to avoid the "formula guys can't get their hands out of the car to point" part of the driver's meeting speech

[Fusion Works]

I am not saying you should have passed him, but someone should have gotten a little closer to get the point across. That driver was not letting people pass as he should. Open passing would have solved this.

[JohnW8]

My previous comments were made based on a level 4 TT event. I keep forgetting that Barber is Level 3 and doesn't require a full license. Novices have enough to do on track without having to keep an eye on the crafty road racers out there doing whatever they do in a practice session.(What do they do anyway?)

My comments were/are based on what Level 4 drivers should have learned in order to get qualified for Level 4 participation. I mean the next step up the ladder is Road Racing, they should have the situational awareness to be able to run their line and be aware of a overtaking driver, TT or RR. The solutions that people are coming up with seem to add more hoops to jump through to get on track rather than simplifying them to increase participation. Wristbands and stickers and drivers meetings are all going to have to be handled and overseen by an Administrator who is probably overworked as is. Heck for the time it takes to have a drivers meeting, we could get another session on track. I am looking for a simple solution to the issue of Road Racers and Time Trialers sharing a track so both can get whatever they need to get from the session. In an ideal world everyone has read the supps and has no questions, but we are humans and are curious. If the supps said it all we would have no need for a drivers meeting. The supps at Barber actually said that attendance would be taken at the TT drivers meeting. It wasn't. So the supps can be wrong sometimes as well.

We need to simplify the "process" and not add unnecessary steps. The grid people have plenty of stickers and decals to look for, adding another is unnecessary. We are paying professional corner workers to be the eyes on the field and report douchbaggery when it happens. If they aren't calling it in maybe we need to discuss it with Fanesha or turn a blind eye to on track activity unless a Steward spots something. We don't need more regulations that add perceived barriers to entry. Currently, I don't think we have the option of having a limited passing session, an open passing session, as well as TTA session, TTB session and Wings & things session along with the RR practice groups. Not enough hours in the day, so we need to adapt.

Since we have gone to the new format in TT, I've not had a clean lap. I've had fast laps but not a clean lap that I can remember. There's always someone, in front or behind you for distraction. For that matter, the TT sessions don't feel any different than a Road Race Practice session. So in that case, I should be aware enough to see a faster car coming provide a point by with a wave, a middle finger or chuck them a deuce to let them know I see them and they can go on around. If I am not aware enough to do that some one please show me the black flag and tell me my golf clubs are ready. Provided of course, I'm aware enough to notice the black flag.

Believe it or not, road racers don't want to tear up their cars either. Body work and paint is expensive and that money doesn't come from an insurance policy, it's straight out of pocket. As long as everyone is aware of their surroundings, there's no reason to believe that a road racer is going to bash into someone in the middle of a corner during practice. They don't want the damage, you shouldn't want the damage. I think we are all responsible adults and can play on track in a responsible way without further regulations or requirements.

I still can't believe Road Atlanta is Level 4 and Barber is only Level 3.

[e30Racer]

Road Atlanta is no longer a level 4 TT. From what I understand, they are no longer doing TT/RR weekends together. So the discussion about RR and TT only pertains to Barber as of right now. So we have to keep in mind that these rules should be made in such a way to work with both types of weekends and not solely for Barber when TTers and RRers are sharing the road.

As I have stated before. I am just simply not going to pass someone in a corner (I may if they give me a point by, but even then I may just wait). There is no need to do it when I can wait for the next straight. Delainies video does present some issues when people don't give point bys and slow down enough. But on the flip side, you always have the option to slow down and create space for yourself. You have the option to go into pit lane and ask for spacing. I know this isn't always the preferred option but traffic is an issue and it will always be. And in my opinion I think properly spacing yourself is part of the "strategy" in being able to get your best lap.

[JohnW8]

So we have to keep in mind that these rules should be made in such a way to work with both types of weekends and not solely for Barber when TTers and RRers are sharing the road.

A TT only weekend would allow for novice no passing, intermediate limited passing as well as advanced open passing groups. The time constraints would be less of a problem.

[farrout]

lest everyone be confused: Level 4 is Hill Climb only. Level 3 is Track Trials. They are different due to their very nature. The fact that HC is Level 4 does not imply a higher level of skill is needed. We do allow TT novices in HC.

RA has NEVER been a Level 4 TT. It has always been a Level 3. They chose not to allow TT novices in their Level 3 TT. IMHO, RA is a more difficult track to drive fast and the penalties for screwing up are more severe than Barber.

Atlanta dropped the RA TT for 2015. One reason is the poor TT entries (~14 average) over the past 4 years). Another is that the May date is no longer a SARRC and they need to redefine the event.

[JohnW8]

We do allow TT novices in HC.

Doesn't this render the TT school as pointless?

[farrout]

So the discussion about RR and TT only pertains to Barber as of right now. So we have to keep in mind that these rules should be made in such a way to work with both types of weekends and not solely for Barber when TTers and RRers are sharing the road.

I started this discussion because I am trying to find a way to improve the Barber TT since ~53% of the TT entries over the last 2 years have been Road Racers. This is NOT to create a set of rules for all of SEDIV TT or create a new paradigm.

The TTR allows open passing. It is up to each Region putting on an event to define (in the supps) what sort of passing regulations are to be followed for that event. For instance, passing zones are unique to each track and have to be defined, if used.

I would never do open passing at TGPR because the turns do not support it. Roebling Road or CMP could support it.

[farrout]

Doesn't this render the TT school as pointless?

A valid question. IMHO - No. It still allows a prospective TT driver to gain his full TT license after the school. Otherwise it is 3 flat track events.

[e30Racer]

Ok, then in regards to Barber only, I would sign up the first year if it was open passing to at least see how things went. If I felt as though other drivers were taking unnecessary risks due to the open passing rules, then I wouldn't return as long as open passing remained.

[JohnW8]

Ok, then in regards to Barber only, I would sign up the first year if it was open passing to at least see how things went. If I felt as though other drivers were taking unnecessary risks due to the open passing rules, then I wouldn't return as long as open passing remained.

That would be your prerogative. But if the corner workers were calling in the driver who were taking those risks and the black flags were used to get control of said driver, would you come back? I don't think open passing would be a problem unless I was unaware and in a gaggle of spec miatas. Otherwise, I would find me a spot to get in where I fit in. Delanies video shows what I do. When douchbaggery ensues I'll back out and look for space.