APril 2013 TGPR

[JohnW8]

But I really don't believe that. Is there a conflict every time we have an event? If there is a conflicting event at Barber every time we have our event in the Spring and Fall, then we need to do our schedule differently.

As far as I know we've never scheduled on top of any Barber event.
If you were an instructor and had a cool, fast track toy you tell me you'd choose TGPR over Barber if they were scheduled the same day?

We've had some ALSCCA "senior" members come out for instructor service before only to leave early because the novice PDX'ers didn't show up. We didn't have enough novices. Several were signed up but failed to show on the day of the event. That hurts our credibility as well as the bank account. I felt bad for the guys who offered to help only to waste their time. That makes it hard to get them to do it again.

[JohnW8]

If we could get the road race groups consolidated and free up a run group or 2
we could have TT and PDX at Barber. The PDX could run during quiet hour, or does Barber have a quiet hour?
Anyway, SCCA has too many classes which require too many run groups and eliminate the possibility for SCCA TT'ers and PDX'ers to run at Barber.

IF that were resolved we wouldn't get hurt so bad by renting Barber.

[rodhx]

We need to start charging a penalty for no-shows or late withdrawals, rather pdx or racer.

Barber does have a quiet hour on Sunday. Just remember that running anything during the "quiet hour" or lunch hour means the corner workers don't get a lunch break.

I agree that the ultimate answer is consolidating the classes so RR ,TT, & PDX can be done on the same weekend. Not that it will happen anytime soon...

[e30Racer]

If we could get the road race groups consolidated and free up a run group or 2
we could have TT and PDX at Barber. The PDX could run during quiet hour, or does Barber have a quiet hour?
Anyway, SCCA has too many classes which require too many run groups and eliminate the possibility for SCCA TT'ers and PDX'ers to run at Barber.

IF that were resolved we wouldn't get hurt so bad by renting Barber.

As Rod stated, yes Barber does have a quiet hour on Sunday.

I disagree a little bit with the "too many run groups to run PDX and/or TT". Atlanta SCCA is able to do this at Road Atlanta, why can't we do it at Barber? Barber is less than a .25 mile shorter, so it's not a matter of number of cars on track at once. What is/are the problem(s) and why have we not done it? I feel like a lot of times the answer is, "Well I don't know, it's just how things have always been done."

[JohnW8]

I honestly don't know why but the run groups are sacred for some reason. I'd rather have that explored as a potential help for the club race than dropping it outright.
I'll see if I can get my hands on the supps from the Atlanta march event.

[Cholewa]

As Rod stated, yes Barber does have a quiet hour on Sunday.

I disagree a little bit with the "too many run groups to run PDX and/or TT". Atlanta SCCA is able to do this at Road Atlanta, why can't we do it at Barber? Barber is less than a .25 mile shorter, so it's not a matter of number of cars on track at once. What is/are the problem(s) and why have we not done it? I feel like a lot of times the answer is, "Well I don't know, it's just how things have always been done."

Judging by the 6 groups that went out at BMP over labor day, I don't really see any added space to throw anything in. They already had to mix the SRF's with IT which... well.. just seems kind of sketchy.

I don't still have the schedule, but each run group had 6-10 classes in it, and the pro-it people ran with IT.

Also, consider we can't really mix the open wheels with cars, so that has to be split so the FV/FF/F1000/etc get to run in their own group. We'd end up with what, 9 run groups? I don't remember what the time for each session was, but I think it was 20m, and then the races were 30-40 or 18 laps or something.

In the end I think it's a safety concern for what cars are grouped together. And if we had to add 3-4 more run groups everyone would see a decrease in track time, which would more than likely result in people not wanting to spend $450 to get less track time.

[JohnW8]

So it sounds like the track was plenty full. Pro-IT ran alone. Like 6 cars in Pro IT. ITA, ITS, ITR ran with the SRF's. Sketchy does describe that mix.

IMO, SCCA needs to consolidate it's classing and include the red headed step children of club racing (TT and PDX) at their events to make it more financially feasible for both sides of the Club Racing family. It that means a more crowded track bring it, I have mirrors in my car and they work awesomely!

[e30Racer]

I agree W8, I think we need to look into the scheduling. I realize that we (ALSCCA) aren't really the ones involved so all the questions we are asking really can't be answered by anyone in the AL region, but really more so by Butch or others in the ATL region. And I also realize that Butch and those guys are very competent and have been doing this for years and would think that they would consolidate as much as possible. But I just wonder how they can run TT and PDX at Rd Atl, and we can't do it at Barber. I would definitely like to compare the schedules from events this year at Rd Atl and Barber.

When I talk about running TT and PDX at Rd Atl, I am meaning two 20 min sessions on Saturday for TT and two 20 min sessions on Sunday (during quiet hour) for PDX. Now that's not a whole lot, but its something.....

[JohnW8]

I wonder if the Regional race at RA in March compared to the Rational at Barber on Labor Day has something to do with the ability to schedule a TT/PDX during an event.
The National folks require more track time per group to be scheduled.

[e30Racer]

That could very well be the major cause. If that's the case, then lets look at 2011's schedule when it was just a rational. One thing I hate about motorsportsreg is that they don't archive events so we could go back and easily find and compare events, participant numbers, etc.

[Cholewa]

BMP last labor day was 6 run groups, pretty much the same makeup as this year, just no pro-it race. It was pretty much IT with a few scattered classes, Spec Miata, Wings n Things fast, Wings n Thins not as fast, Ground Pounders, and the catch all run whatcha brung group with god knows what, I believe they call that "Alphabet Soup".

[JohnW8]

That could very well be the major cause. If that's the case, then lets look at 2011's schedule when it was just a rational. One thing I hate about motorsportsreg is that they don't archive events so we could go back and easily find and compare events, participant numbers, etc.

I looked up groups on mylaps.com the AMB transponder site.
2011 Barber had 6 run group as Cholewa mentioned but at Road Atlanta this past July
they had only 5 run groups and I believe they had a PDX.

GP1: IT7/A/S/R/X, SM5
GP2: E/F/HP, ITB/C, GT3/L, SRF, SSB/C, T3
GP3: AS, GT1/2/A, ITO, SPO, STO, T1/2
GP4: SM/SM5
GP5: FORMULA CARS

[e30Racer]

Thanks for all the info W8 and Cholewa. Now we're getting somewhere!!!

[chuck schultz]

A couple of data points, based on my recollection of the facts:

Road Atlanta has a mandatory (by county ordinance, I believe) no-race-engine rule from 10:30 - 12:00 (IIRC) every Sunday. Non-race cars are allowed on track during that time, hence the PDX for SCCA and HPDE for NASA, etc., are allowed _if_not_too_loud_. This rule is sometimes enforced by a deputy. As for corner workers and other officials for the ATLSCCA PDX, this is done by volunteering race drivers and a few of the regular F&C folks who can't pry themselves out of a corner station until they are told they have to leave.

Barber has a mandatory 1-hour break every day to allow the track owner (the museum) to use the track for testing. The break is required whether the museum uses it or not. On Sunday, the break must be 11:00 - 12:00. Other days it can vary.

As far as running SRF with IT, it makes more sense than running them with CSR and DSR, because they weigh almost as much as most of the slower IT cars (almost twice as much as other sports racers,) and probably run comparable (or at least compatible) lap times, too. There's much less speed differential than the ground pounder group, too, I'd guess.

The class groupings are recommended by SEDiv, allowing for "permanent" numbers and probably to allow folks to get used to the kinds of traffic to expect, too.

[Fusion Works]

I would be all for helping put together a PDX program for Barber. Not sure how to go about it yet, but I think if we did it right we could get the participation we need.

I will be working on adding some features to our PDX program during the offseason, so we have more to offer both students and potential instructors.