Attendance ...

[JohnW8]

The GREAT perk is getting to know and associate with a great bunch of guys.(John Waight excluded)

What did I do?

[DAB21]

Personally I love motorsports and alwalys wanted to be involved, and started late in life when Jerry Vogel introduced me to the SCCA in Birmingham. NEVER have I enjoyed any entertainment more than doing what we do. The GREAT perk is getting to know and associate with a great bunch of guys.(John Waight excluded) Racing or whatever you want to call it is not for everybody, but personally I love the competition and regullarly get my tail handed to me by a bunch of CSP freaks that really know how to handle a car. Stainless steel brake lines is what put me in CSP halfway through my first season in CS. I have enjoyed learning about what and how to set up my car as ax time has gone by, and the more I learn the more I know that I don't know crap. So either come and enjoy the driving experience and the comradarie or plainly quit your whining. Have a day

Warms the cockells of my heart all the way from my dual overhead cams to the stainless steel tips of my Borla exhaust!

[Welacey]

Personally I love motorsports and alwalys wanted to be involved, and started late in life when Jerry Vogel introduced me to the SCCA in Birmingham. NEVER have I enjoyed any entertainment more than doing what we do. The GREAT perk is getting to know and associate with a great bunch of guys.(John Waight excluded) Racing or whatever you want to call it is not for everybody, but personally I love the competition and regullarly get my tail handed to me by a bunch of CSP freaks that really know how to handle a car. Stainless steel brake lines is what put me in CSP halfway through my first season in CS. I have enjoyed learning about what and how to set up my car as ax time has gone by, and the more I learn the more I know that I don't know crap. So either come and enjoy the driving experience and the comradarie or plainly quit your whining. Have a day

[ZX3Focus]

How about a movable car show?

On a Saturday with nice weather, we could make stops at a couple/few local parks with schedules/promo materials in hand. We park as a group, slap on our magnetic race numbers, stage our car to show off our mods and see who takes the bait.

While waiting, we could picnic, play frisbee/hackeysack/football/whatever, then after an hour or so we take the numbers off, pack up, and find the twistiest possible route to the next park on our list.

This would be great if we could have both stock class and ridiculously modified racers in each group to show how little or how much you can do to your race car.

[ZX3Focus]

Could we give some sort of perk to cars that wear permanently attached SCCA promotional materials? 1 free fun run, a cold Coca-Cola, something?

It would get more people aware that there is an SCCA region in their local market if the car you flog on Sunday commutes with a sticker on the other 6 days of the week - particularly for those of us whose cars are daily driven or at least still streetable.

[BoostedFD]

hideeho
i can answer the fairness of the classing question. it is not fair because someone who chops his springs to lower his car, but doesnt change the shocks or add roll bars is put in an SP class. they need to make a class that includes only the people who chop their springs. similarly if you put a cold air intake on you are moved into an SP class. they need to have a class for people who only have cold air intakes. if you put on some larger diameter wheels you get moved to an SP class. there needs to be a larger wheel class. if you have chopped springs & big wheels there needs to be a class.

the problem with this scenerio is that already i have created 32 new classes. every class would be fair, but you would end up w/ every single car in its own class. there has to be some break points in the classing somewhere. the scca has all ready adressed this to some extent w/ the st & sm classes.

personally i think the current classing system is very fair, but there is room for improvement. i really like nasa's TT class system for example. each car is put into a limited number of classes (A-H for example). each class then has a sub class (nasa uses a number, but a second letter would probably work better). the sub class is based the mods to the car. a box stock car on oem tires would be A. every mod you do to the car ads points to the car. the number of points you accumulate determines the class you are in. the problem that SOME people will point out is that it is unfair because you have to know what the mod is goint to do to the car performance wise. for example, car A puts on a body kit (few points), chop springs, change exaust, change seats, put in roll bar, put in 4 point harness, change steering wheel, put on cold air intake, remove back seat, & has a KILLER paint job. car B puts on dot R rubber and no other mods. assuming equal skill, my money would be on car B winning & car A whinning.

the whole point of classes is not to be fair, but to level the playing field with the mods you can do. if you don't want/cant afford to do all the mods a class allows it is not fair, & never will be. unless you do every mod for a class & learn to set the car up it won't be fair. it will be even less fair when someone who has been doing this for YEARS comes in & has less mods than you do on your & STILL beats you.

by the ways as far as what mods are the fastest, tires can account for up to 4 sec, all other suspension mods can be up to 3 sec total, engine mods can be around 2 secs, driver skill can be over 20 SECONDS!. get over yourself & modify the driver before whining about the car.

I give you props for an excellent explanation and typing that much!!

[Cholewa]

seriously, tires are not an excuses to not come to an autocross. I run on my street tires every time and have a great time.

[waflet]

hideeho
i can answer the fairness of the classing question. it is not fair because someone who chops his springs to lower his car, but doesnt change the shocks or add roll bars is put in an SP class. they need to make a class that includes only the people who chop their springs. similarly if you put a cold air intake on you are moved into an SP class. they need to have a class for people who only have cold air intakes. if you put on some larger diameter wheels you get moved to an SP class. there needs to be a larger wheel class. if you have chopped springs & big wheels there needs to be a class.

the problem with this scenerio is that already i have created 32 new classes. every class would be fair, but you would end up w/ every single car in its own class. there has to be some break points in the classing somewhere. the scca has all ready adressed this to some extent w/ the st & sm classes.

personally i think the current classing system is very fair, but there is room for improvement. i really like nasa's TT class system for example. each car is put into a limited number of classes (A-H for example). each class then has a sub class (nasa uses a number, but a second letter would probably work better). the sub class is based the mods to the car. a box stock car on oem tires would be A. every mod you do to the car ads points to the car. the number of points you accumulate determines the class you are in. the problem that SOME people will point out is that it is unfair because you have to know what the mod is goint to do to the car performance wise. for example, car A puts on a body kit (few points), chop springs, change exaust, change seats, put in roll bar, put in 4 point harness, change steering wheel, put on cold air intake, remove back seat, & has a KILLER paint job. car B puts on dot R rubber and no other mods. assuming equal skill, my money would be on car B winning & car A whinning.

the whole point of classes is not to be fair, but to level the playing field with the mods you can do. if you don't want/cant afford to do all the mods a class allows it is not fair, & never will be. unless you do every mod for a class & learn to set the car up it won't be fair. it will be even less fair when someone who has been doing this for YEARS comes in & has less mods than you do on your & STILL beats you.

by the ways as far as what mods are the fastest, tires can account for up to 4 sec, all other suspension mods can be up to 3 sec total, engine mods can be around 2 secs, driver skill can be over 20 SECONDS!. get over yourself & modify the driver before whining about the car.

[TouringBubble]

Please people ... this thread isn't about Augustus or if he's whining or not. It's about ways to get more attendance. and, as even Augustus mentioned ... calling people whiners on the forum isn't helping this cause.

Please ... let's get some ideas and even better, let's get something in the works from the ideas in the thread.

[claym]

Yeah. I'm whining. I admit that. I'm just whining that I did enjoy getting 1st/2nd place trophys. But having my car the way I want it is far more important than being competitive.

Also, telling people that they're whining, when they point out flaws in a system is defiantly not a way to increase attendance, or make the organization look any better. People spread the word. "Hey man, you go to Autocross right? How is that?" Then they respond with "Oh, yeah, the driving was fun, but when I spoke up about how classing makes it unfair for people with just a couple basic mods, they said I was whining." "Oh, really... Doesn't sound cool."

It's a shame that you are not trying to "repair" the flaws.

What are the "flaws"? How should the rules be changed to repair the flaws? Do others see the same flaws, or do the rules just penalize you (or a few)? If you don't come up with answers, follow the system in place by SCCA to voice complaints (they usually like solutions to be suggested), or generalize your unhappiness by lumping your gripes into "flaws in a system", then YOU ARE WHINING

Next, you should go after other sports rules that are flawed. Take all your gripes straight to the White House. They will fix everything!

Be part of the solution, not a whiner. And have a great day!

[engled]

I fail to see where classing is unfair. Please point the unfair part out and we will start a letter writing campaign. You may not like the classing but it is fair.

[Erv]

please note it isn't our classing its scca's if you have a problem with that, write them, all we ddo is abide by there classing.

i don't know about you, but, I compete with people not in my class, SM is great fun, but I try to beat everyone.

auto x has been ending around 2-3 pm this entire year

i am running on dead azenis makes it that much more fun when you win

get some cooler friends, lol. jk

i agree classing is unfair, its just something you have to deal with.

[Augustus]

If you would have liked autox at all, you would have taken the money you spent on that turbo and bought a stock steering wheel so you could be running in stock Oh wait, there are some fast guys/gals in stock too. And guess what, sometimes they're actually faster than those in CSP. I think you're right. You're screwed on being competitive.

Actually, I ran in E-Stock for an entire season, on stock wheels, with my stock steering wheel. It was always a neck and neck race between me and the yellow Fiero. I even got first a couple times. So I was one of those "fast guys", when I had fresh V710s.

But I decided long ago that I would not let SCCA's rules constrict the way my car would be set up. Build my car to win 6 minutes a month, or build my car to have fun where I drive it most? I want my car the way I like it. That airbagless steering wheel from a stock Japanese Miata looks good? Buy it. Now I'm in CSP. But I'd rather have the cool wheel than be competitive. (By the way, since that steering wheels was factory equipment in Japan... Would that still be considered "Stock"?) Also, when I "cheated" and got away with it, I came nowhere near close to winning. My V710s were rock hard and almost two years old.

Yeah. I'm whining. I admit that. I'm just whining that I did enjoy getting 1st/2nd place trophys. But having my car the way I want it is far more important than being competitive.

Also, telling people that they're whining, when they point out flaws in a system is defiantly not a way to increase attendance, or make the organization look any better. People spread the word. "Hey man, you go to Autocross right? How is that?" Then they respond with "Oh, yeah, the driving was fun, but when I spoke up about how classing makes it unfair for people with just a couple basic mods, they said I was whining." "Oh, really... Doesn't sound cool."

I'm not new to this, and I don't go telling people that Auto-X sucks. I encourage people to go. I've been doing Auto-X since Aug of '06, but I havent been recently, so don't think I'm just some whining noob. This is just something thats stuck out at me since I started. Also, the classing system probably keeps the "unwanted" types away. You know who I mean. The drifter kids with the slammed cars, who don't like to follow rules.

I know I said that classing was one of the main reasons I don't go, but I take that back. If I had to put them in order, it would be this :
1: Too lazy to wake up that early. But the time we do events cant be changed.
2: The price is kinda steep (This can't be helped)
3: Since my V710s rocked over, and I'm too cheap to buy new ones, I didn't really feel the urge to run on all seasons (More whining)
4: I have to be at work by 5:00PM on Sunday (I usually get home from Auto-x at 5:30 - 6:00, so I have to make arrangements a week in advance do go.
5: None of my friends go on a regular basis (When they do, they always ask me at 9PM on the night before the event, too late for me to change my work schedule.)
6: Because I whine about classing and think its somewhat unfair.

Supposedly my friend is going on Sunday, and he wants me to come. I'll probably be there.

[Mike#18]

NOT BAD Leon.That is quite a good idea.That could be a solid quartely event.

RR

+1 lets do it! Next auto x im bringing 240 parts and tires

[BoostedFD]

Just a thought regarding Solo attendance and the Sunday-only schedule constraint, has anyone thought about pushing the start time back to take advantage of summer daylight hours? The entire day's schedule could conceivably be shifted at least two hours. When is the typical first car off...about 11am? If that can be moved to about 1pm and tech/registration open til noon-ish you might allow more folks to participate after church or perhaps come from farther away. Starting at 1pm also means no reason to break for lunch.

I think this should be tried 2-3 times to see if it helps any. I believe it will. I know every year I hear of someone only coming to a few because of having to miss church every Sunday there is an event.