Stf + stc = st???

[Cholewa]

The point is that not everyone comes out to compete for the fastest time of the day. Some people actually do this for the fun of driving, not the competition. And a lot of those people are new to the sport and want the easiest way to get started.

Doing something like that would provide not only a simpler method for them, but would also clear headaches from us behind the scenes dealing with what class they fall into, what exactly they mean when they say "bolt ons", etc.


Not everyone shows up to compete, some people just want to drive and have some other people/cars to compare themselves to. They don't want to worry about whether they are in FSP or STX or XP or EM, neither do we at registration.

[Erv]

Bottom line, I'm already looking for tires to give wangan a run for his money.

bring it on good sir

[rodhx]

Just an observation. But if there are three people in STF, why do we need to combine classes? We haven't even had the first event and we have two new people in STF.

+1

A test-n-tune gives you no idea what participation is going to be like. The old ST group of cars is one of our largest groups, especially when you factor in past novices and the cars noobs are most likely to show up with. Can we not leave the STC & STF split alone for at least one real event?

Regarding the "just run for raw time bragging rights" proposal...we have done that for years. It is called the raw time results. Every event I use the raw results to see how I've done against top folks, regardless of class.

I am opposed to screwing around with the national classes, especially for folks who are not really interested in running for points, etc anyway. I do not have a problem with setting up a RAW class like with have Xpro, Tire, or Novice, but I move that it is unnecessary since those results are already published in a format suitable for the stated purpose.

I would much rather have a Raw class than our new habit of allowing illegal mods into lower classes.

[JohnW8]

Not everyone shows up to compete, some people just want to drive and have some other people/cars to compare themselves to.

Isn't this the definition of compete? Competition is a comparison of your car and skill to others cars and skills. The timing light is the judge.


Atlanta Region has a class that is "Time Only" (TO) wherein you do just that, you drive for time only. No records are kept, no printouts are available. You drive and see the board to get you time. If you want to be TO "champion" you have to keep track of it yourself. Of course TO Champion is much like being a PDX National Champion.

[rodhx]

by the way, y'all do realize the easy button regarding classification and registration is sticking with the actual rule book, right? That way your answer to any question is "read the rules" rather than "let's look at yet another so-called 'special case' and see if we can make allowances".

That may sound harsher than I intend...no, wait...nevermind

[Cholewa]

by the way, y'all do realize the easy button regarding classification and registration is sticking with the actual rule book, right? That way your answer to any question is "read the rules" rather than "let's look at yet another so-called 'special case' and see if we can make allowances".

That may sound harsher than I intend...no, wait...nevermind

Never heard of this here "rule book" thing...


I think what we might need to do, is print out and laminate a few of the car class guidelines, and put it on the table, and just tell people "You cannot register until you know what class your car is in". I hate to be a dick and make things more difficult for the newbs, but there does need to be some sort of understanding that if they show up, they need to know a few things.

We're laid back and that's great, but it might be getting to the point where it's just too laid back. I can't keep up with classes and I honestly don't care to, I expect people to show up somewhat prepared.

[Erv]

I'd be happy to take my old spot of class chief back, I even have a spreadsheet that I have been working on that'll tell you your class.

[JohnW8]

My first ever autocross at BRC, I showed up with no clue what I was supposed to do so I was depending on the help of those who have been there before. Michael Harpman was the go to guy for newbs who didn't know where to run. He asked me what I had on the car and I told him " you know just bolt on stuff, nothing major" CSP he said and I've been there ever since.

My point is we need a classing person as a work assignment to hang out near the registration table with all the laminated stuff no one will read and assign classes. I know the rule book states that each competitor is responsible for their classing but I don't know if Newbs know there is a rulebook. I didn't know there was one at first and then I didn't bother to read it for almost 2 years. 4 years seriously. All the rules and then all the interpretations and monthly updates in Fastrack make my brain want to explode.

The Classing Genius can tell you in which class to start and then recommend reading the rule book for the Newbs in order for them to find the class in which they want to run.

ANY of the current classes will provide a spot for someone to come out and drive and have fun. We could put a Z06 in HStock and let them run but it would be up to the competitors in HS to call BS on the SS interloper.
See how we all have to work together, you know,....like a club or something.

[Jedi1]

I don't even know what constitutes an STF car, but I do know that I have tires to run in that class. Now, if I can just make it an event this year, lol.

[ZX3Focus]

How about a policy of "if you appear at registration and don't know your class yet, you go in XP." This could be combined with the classing specialist idea and would lessen the classing burden on the registrars.

[JohnW8]

I agree the registrars have enough going on in the trailer without dealing with classes.

XP becomes the catch-all for unknown class folks as well as "I just wanna drive around cones"


Makes good sense. We still need a class genius.

[kilgojr]

Looks as though our ATL region friends had 0 entries in STF for their points 1 event this past Sunday. They had quite a few STC competitors. Just one of those things I think everyone will be dealing with this year.

[rodhx]

Not surprising re: ATL STF results. Remember, STF was founded under the theory that there are some "newer-ish, heavier-ish" front wheel drive cars that need a place to play in ST without getting beaten about the head & shoulders by 22 year old Civics. In a region as competitive as Atlanta, I would expect there to be an initial shortage of STF cars.

I would love to see Ervin or someone become class chief again. I will be glad to help once we get more safety stewards.

If McFall or the Lotus doesn't show up, won't we be rewarding the noobs by placing them in XP?

BTW, when I showed up for my first event I had thoroughly researched the classes and knew that I was in CSP even though that was not where I wanted to be. Instead of begging for an indulgence I got my tail kicked like a first-timer should. I then got rid of the one part that bumped me and moved to CS (even though I never plan to own a set of r-comps). But I am an engineer and like to show up actually prepared

[engled]

BTW, when I showed up for my first event I had thoroughly researched the classes and knew that I was in CSP even though that was not where I wanted to be. Instead of begging for an indulgence I got my tail kicked like a first-timer should. I then got rid of the one part that bumped me and moved to CS (even though I never plan to own a set of r-comps). But I am an engineer and like to show up actually prepared

I think that's just our generation, I had even made some magnetic numbers by hand.

/I didn't get any participation trophies growing up either.

[Erv]

I am more than willing to wait a few events, but, since someone said it wasn't allowed...

FWIW, pg 240,

APPENDIX B - BUMPING ORDER
“Bumping” is not approved for championship events. However, the following
bumping order is recommended for regional events in cases where a
class is to be combined with another class.
The progression of the ladies bumping order shall be: if there is only one
competitor in a Ladies Class, that competitor shall move to the parallel
Open Class. If a class is still not formed, the competitor should then be
bumped into the next appropriate Ladies Class (see diagram). If a class
has still not been formed, the competitor should again be bumped to the
appropriate Open Class. This movement would continue until a class is
formed.
Example: HSL entrant(s) bump to HS, then HSL entrant(s) to GSL, then
HSL entrant(s) to GS, then HSL entrant(s) to DSL, etc. Also, Ladies Class
entrants should be bumped first to create a class. Example: If there is only
one entrant in each of the three classes CS, DS, and DSL, the entrant in
DSL would be bumped into DS first to form a DS class and the CS entrant
would then be bumped upward into BS (i.e., it would not be correct to
bump the DS entrant into CS before considering the DSL entrant).
Proceed left to right following the arrows, until a class is formed. Where
two bumping paths come together (including Ladies-to-Open bumps), all
bumps up to the joining point should be done before continuing along the
bump path.
STOCK CATEGORY
FS→BS
HS→GS→DS→ES→CS→BS→AS→SS→Street Prepared class for
car as appropriate
STREET TOURING CATEGORY
STF→STC→STS→STR→STX→STU→Street Prepared class for car
as appropriate
STREET PREPARED CATEGORY
ESP→BSP→ASP
FSP→DSP→CSP→ASP→Street Modified class for car as appropriate
STREET MODIFIED CATEGORY
SMF→SM→SSM→XP or other Prepared class for car as appropriate
PREPARED CATEGORY
CP→XP
FP→XP
GP→DP→EP→XP→EM or DM class for car as appropriate
MODIFIED CATEGORY
EM→DM→CM
FM→CM→BM→AM
KART CATEGORY
KM→BM