Musclewrench NEW car class questions

[Cholewa]

FWD cars aren't relegated to SMF, that's only if they don't want to play with the big boys in SM.

[TouringBubble]

3 things, 1 he would be in SMF(if he was SM legal), 2 you can only change boost in SP through ECU, no manual/electronic boost control, and 3 yes you change either sway bar in stock.

5.10.4.f ...

Boost regulation systems, either electronic or mechanical, and
electronic fuel cuts referencing boost pressure may be altered
or modified except as prohibited herein. Boost pressure changes
resulting from authorized changes are permitted.

the "except as prohibited herein" mainly applies to 5.10.4.c ...

No changes are allowed to supercharger drive system pulleys.
Belt tensioners may be added/changed to reduce belt slip.

... as the main way to change boost pressure on a SC is to change the pulley.

Do you not remember having this discussion so many years back? I think we had this exact discussion the first time we met ... lol.

I do see the point with SMF.

[YoursTruly]

My SAAB (when I was still looking to autocross it) became a bit of a classing nightmare for me. I sat and sorted through the rules with a list of my mods and found that I could just edge into STX. ECU tune and the extra .3L over the 2.0 limit for a lower class eventually made the decision for me. I am glad I bought a miata. It has been easier to mod a stock car according to the rules rather than fit my modded car into the classes. - my $.02

Musclewrench, good luck finding the right class for you. If you are just looking to have fun for now, XP may not be a bad idea.

[musclewrench]

I really think it is STF

Hi everyone. I keep going over the rules for STF. I really think this car including the lower braces are allowable. Matt W said:

No cross-car/lateral/triangulated connections directly between the
driver’s side and passenger’s side SFCs are permitted. Connections
to OE components such as tunnel braces or closure panels
via bolts are allowed and count as the third point of attachment.
No alteration to the OE components is permitted.

However, the primary pick up points on these are suspension and not chassis. The are also designed to go across a car not longitudinally like these do:



As I re-read 14.2 G, these bars seem to fit. A 14.2 H infraction sounds like an X brace that mounts to chassis points, fore to aft and across like this:



My braces aren't like either of those. When I installed these, the fronts went through the lower ball joint which was a pita because the suspension moved when I was installing it and had to really fight to get things to line up again in order to bolt it back together. The rear bar attaches to the bolt that holds the entire back-end arm assembly. I would still call that a suspension pickup point.

The rule 14.2 G 3 doesn't say that the braces can't be triangulated. It just says:

Lower suspension braces must be attached to the lower suspension pickup point locations on the chassis within 2 inches in any direction of the actual suspension attachment to the chassis.

Rodhx makes the point:

BTW, the cube cannot possibly run in STF. Note that, like STR, STF is a prescribed class for specific vehicles only. The old "ST" not-otherwise-classified catch-all is in STC.

Rod is totally right. However, since the Cube isn't classed and can't be eligible for anything but local events, I think that if the ST folks can agree, Section 1.1 can be invoked in the spirit of the rules that we all believe this car to be STF and Regions are free to allow any other version of the ST concept which meets their local needs. Therefore, can I ask for consideration? Looking at the registrations so far, I'm up against a Mazda 2 which seems fair considering R compound tires are not allowed. It should be a decent match up imho. Thank you for your consideration and continued dialog.

[Erv]

I'm all about it love some competition.

[musclewrench]

Thanks!

Thanks Ervin! I feel that our cars are more evenly matched. The thought of going against evos that can use R compound tires doesn't seem competitive (I'm going to use bone stock tires this weekend). I'd like to see what all you have done to a Mazda 2. Look forward to seeing you on Saturday!

[TouringBubble]

MW, I think the catch is that, while the braces attach to the suspension, they ALSO attach to the chassis. This means they must conform to the rules of both sections I've quoted.

See the attached photo. I've noted suspension pickup points in green and chassis points in red (with a little guesswork on that rear triangulated bar). The bars outlined in blue would be legal suspension braces. The bars in orange would be legal chassis braces (with an extra note tossed in for the center channel). The bars in purple are not legal outside of Prepared classes. At least, this is my interpretation of the rules, which may be off.

That bar in the front does pick up from the control arm mount, but is triangulated with other chassis points, making it a chassis brace and not just a suspension brace. A legal suspension brace would look like this (from a 1.8t VW) ...



It only connects the inner mounts for the control arms, nothing else.

Nothing says the Cube can't run national events, especially in a Prepared class. If it is lowered or has a wide enough track to meet the W:H requirements for SCCA autocross, it has a class. For an ST build, it would be STC ... the "catch-all ST class.

But if Ervin is your only competition currently, sounds like he wants you to run STF. If any other competitors and the event chair don't care, I'd say run STF all day, regardless of the barces and classifications. That's what Katie did last year to have some competition.

[musclewrench]

That clears it up

Thank you TB. That clears it up for me. I know that there is a different type of front brace that would be legal. I may look to swap it out and see what I can do to make the rear legal too. As for now, like you said, if STF is ok, I'll run in that class else, I'll bump. Thanks again. Ps. nice graphic!

[Erv]

Thanks Ervin! I feel that our cars are more evenly matched. The thought of going against evos that can use R compound tires doesn't seem competitive (I'm going to use bone stock tires this weekend). I'd like to see what all you have done to a Mazda 2. Look forward to seeing you on Saturday!

for the record no one in an Evo locally runs R Comp's. I ran bone stock tires, well everything last year, and while fun they lacked that.... competitve feel, I will hopefully have swaybars wheels and tires by Fri, if not it'll be stock. I have coilovers on the way, but, they won't be here til middle of March unfortunately. I really wanna see what a Cube can do, I am quite curious. We'll see you Sat.

[Cholewa]

for the record no one in an Evo locally runs R Comp's. I ran bone stock tires, well everything last year, and while fun they lacked that.... competitve feel, I will hopefully have swaybars wheels and tires by Fri, if not it'll be stock. I have coilovers on the way, but, they won't be here til middle of March unfortunately. I really wanna see what a Cube can do, I am quite curious. We'll see you Sat.

C has a fancy set of road race rubber off a koni challenge car (I think, might have been continental) that he's supposedly going to use this year... Supposedly.

[EWaugh]

i don't think those tires would get hot enough to stick...and I don't think they're DOT either

[Cholewa]

i don't think those tires would get hot enough to stick...and I don't think they're DOT either

They would still be stickier than worn out street tires. Also don't forget his car is heavy and would heat them up a lot faster than a stripped out civic would.

[EWaugh]

still aren't DOT

[TouringBubble]

Musclewrench, would you mind changing your car number? We try to reserve 3 digit numbers for 2-driver cars. Since STF is a new class, you can have about any number you want from 1 to 99.

[musclewrench]

Switched number

Done. I switched it to 66. Let me know if I need to change something else. Thanks!