Musclewrench NEW car class questions

[TouringBubble]

Ah ... I thought STF was the catch all. Thanks for the info on that.

[c-evoVIII]

Just put him in SM. done. C

[Cholewa]

We should probably put a print out inside the trailer that shows a basic overview of the classes and the most common cars in it so we can guess better this year.

Something like:

BS - S2000, 350z, etc.
CS - this year miatas, other girly cars
DS - bmw this (year to year), chevy impala
HS - grocery getters

STR - girl cars with these mods
STC - hondas with these mods
STX - these with those mods.


Something basic and one page.

[kilgojr]

We should probably put a print out inside the trailer that shows a basic overview of the classes and the most common cars in it so we can guess better this year.

Something like:

BS - S2000, 350z, etc.
CS - this year miatas, other girly cars
DS - bmw this (year to year), chevy impala
HS - grocery getters

STR - girl cars with these mods
STC - hondas with these mods
STX - these with those mods.


Something basic and one page.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAH..............something basic and one page has no possibility with SCCA Solo classing.

The rule book will be in the trailer, and I think we should have the pdf version on the timing/scoring computers. They have all the listings of the cars in Appendix A.

As far as novice, I don't think he would qualify as he said that he ran Solo II (he actually said Solo II) "back in the day" in an EP BMW 2002. So I think he would not qualify. I actually have not met this person other then an email exchange.

I am thinking if the chassis bracing bumps him out of Street Prepared, then he needs to go to XP. The Nissan Cube is not in the Appendix of cars listed to run, so really, putting him in a ST class is not really doable as Rod said, those are classes that are prescribed classes. But if STC is a catch all class for Street Tire then I guess he can run there, as long as the chassis bracing doesn't throw him out of the ST grouping.

[TouringBubble]

Also, why skip SM? I know C was kidding, but really ... if it's not SP legal then SM would be the next stop. I think the braces are legal in SM. SM has catch-all rules for engine, weight, doors, etc. Unless you are changing suspension geometry, running an entirely different drivetrain or completely gut the car, it should be SM legal.

But, for heads-up random raw time competition, he might want to consider XP if the STC guys don't want him there.

[TouringBubble]

Going through the book now ...

14.2.G.3 - Lower suspension braces must be attached to the lower suspension
pickup point locations on the chassis within 2 inches (2”, 50.8
mm) in any direction of the actual suspension attachment to the
chassis.

14.2.H - Longitudinal (fore-aft) subframe connectors (“SFCs”) are permitted
with the following restrictions:
1. They must only connect previously unconnected boxed frame rails
on unibody vehicles.
2. Each SFC must attach at no more than three points on the unibody
(e.g. front, rear, and one point in between such as a seat
mount brace or rocker box brace).
3. SFCs must be bolted in place and not welded.
4. No cutting of OE subframes or floorpan stampings is permitted.
Drilling is permitted for mounting bolts only.
5. No cross-car/lateral/triangulated connections directly between the
driver’s side and passenger’s side SFCs are permitted. Connections
to OE components such as tunnel braces or closure panels
via bolts are allowed and count as the third point of attachment.
No alteration to the OE components is permitted.
6. SFCs may not be used to attach other components (including but
not limited to torque arm front mounts or driveshaft loops) and
may serve no other purpose.

If his chassis braces fall in to these rules he is ST legal. Basically, not more than 3 mounting points, longitudinal only (unless it's a lower suspension brace) and not crossing from one side to another. Having specifics on which braces they are would help.

STC appendix includes ...

Sedans & Coupes NOC (nonsports-
car-based; 4-seat minimum;
up to 3.1L normally aspirated)

I call STC.

[rodhx]

350z = CS btw. just in case Cholewa's example throws anyone off. Lord knows the classes can be confusing enough with us helping.

[musclewrench]

Hello everyone. Thank you for the heated debate to classify this oddball of a car! I first want to know if there is an "old timers" class vice novice since I used Solo II?

As for the braces, see the pic. Triangular, they are. I definitely would like to keep out of M since this is my daily driver and I don't have plans to gut the interior or make any engine mods, that is what got me in trouble with the 02. That said, the braces make a huge diff. Moreover, I haven't upgrade the pads and rotors yet if that is a consolation. Lastly the tires are street tires not shaved or slicks. Thank you again for posting. Let the debate continue!

[rodhx]

Those rule out the ST classes. Probably the most fun place to run it is in XP.

[TouringBubble]

Based on that image, it's a Prepared car. EP or XP specifically. Street Modified allows subframe connectors as written in the Street Prepared rules ...

No cross-car/lateral/triangulated connections directly between the
driver’s side and passenger’s side SFCs are permitted. Connections
to OE components such as tunnel braces or closure panels
via bolts are allowed and count as the third point of attachment.
No alteration to the OE components is permitted.

That bumps you out of ST, SP, SM and in to Prepared.

As an SM competitor, I say feel free to run with us. We don't have many FSP cars and I have no clue how STC turnouts will look as it's a new class.

As I said before, I think it's an ST car, as it really is save for those chassis braces. Maybe talk tot he STC guys at the T&T event to see if they mind and see how the results look at the end. If you have a commanding lead over STC then you should probably change classes. If it's close, I'd want to race with you.

[engled]

Running in novice he will need to talk to all of the novices as Rod pointed out (PAX). I'm a firm believer of putting a car in the correct class.

[rodhx]

Maybe talk tot he STC guys at the T&T event to see if they mind and see how the results look at the end. If you have a commanding lead over STC then you should probably change classes. If it's close, I'd want to race with you.

Locally, this may be the thing to do. My sons may end up in STC so they might have a vote. However, if this car is run in Novice it should be classed correctly in Prepared for the reasons I said earlier. Doesn't sound like novice is his intention though.

[rodhx]

Just to add on to Darryl's comment..it is impossible to talk to all of the novices since they are the largest and most dynamic class we have.

[TouringBubble]

He's not a novice, guys. He's got experience. He will most likely be running in a raw time class, unless he wants to run in TEP.

[Cholewa]

350z = CS btw. just in case Cholewa's example throws anyone off. Lord knows the classes can be confusing enough with us helping.

Something like this would easily throw me off, which is why we should make a list of common cars and the classes they now fall into, and where they would go when modified.

Since we can't ever rely on novices to actually know what class they are in, it can be a real headache getting out the book and searching, and then having to explain to them that "when I say what modifications you've done, replying with "some bolt ons" is not detailed enough."


I just want a basic chart to look at to know where the most common cars fall, and where they typically get bumped into with the basic streetable mods that most enthusiasts would perform.


It doesn't help that I really have no idea where cars go once they get modified and what modifications are allowed in which specific class and all that jazz. A handy chart could prove quite helpful.

Say - exhaust
- catback - stock
- headers - modified
- header back - prepared


Etc. Just use the basic mods that most people would do - lowering springs, intakes, exhausts, sway bars, chips, etc.