2012 Solo Supplemental Regulations

[TouringBubble]

Let me throw out some numbers to you all who are in favor of having drops.

For 2011.....

31 participants drove in enough events (6+) to be considered for the championship

Of those 31, only 4 participated in all 10 events

2 of those 4 won their class. (Sara and Rod)

Even including 1 or 2 drops would not have made a difference in the final outcome of any of the 4 peoples positions who attended every event.

Therefore, the ability to win a class is not based on attendance, but driver ability. So why are we debating this when a vast majority (87%) of those who attended 6+ events didn't even make every event, but yet it still didn't change the final outcome of the standings? Riddle me this....

Please don't take this as me complaining ... I'm honestly 100% okay with how the season turned out ... the decision is to not use drops and that's fine with me.

Take a look at SM. Sara and I were basically swapping 1st place back and forth all season. the fact that my clutch failed at the 3rd event and I missed the 4th (car still broken) directly affected the season results. If the drops were as the used to be, with 2 events dropped, Points 10 would have been the deciding factor for the season in SM. Without drops, I had no chance to win SM.

I made a thread about it as I was excited about having a real "drivers" battle with Sara to decide SM. But, since there were no drops, the best I could do was second place. So, I decided to coach Katie at event 9 and didn't attend event 10 (Katie was out of town, so I couldn't coach her).

Basically, you have the same issue either way. Without drops, I'm hearing the argument that the better driver wins ... but it could just as easily be that the person with a more open schedule. With drops, the person that can attend all events still has an advantage as they would have 2 more chances to improve their points over someone that missed 2 events. If someone loses a championship because someone missed 2 events and still managed to get more points, they were not the better driver.

You are also basing your entire assessment on the few years you've raced in this region. With the increase in participation over the last couple of years, we could easily return to the 110+ participant events we used to have, with less novices slammed in one class and classes with 4 or 5 top runners that swap out 1st place. When that happens, it's not so cut and dry as the 2011 season. That one guy that missed an event will lose the championship over that one event, even if he was consistently in the top 3 with a few event wins.

I see this with SM in 2012 with C and Mark really stepping up their game in 2011 and with John having his car back on the road. It won't be Sara and I fighting for the win this season ... it will be everyone. CSP has been this way in the past and will likely return as well. Those championships used to come down to just a few points and one event deciding the season.

I have to agree with the fact that having no drops caters to the minority ... those 4 people that made all 10 events.

Basically, we are not professional drivers. We have commitments on some weekends. We have day jobs. We have cars that break and we don't have a team and sponsored budgets to fix them. The majority of people WILL miss at least one event per season.

I agree that we are a small region. We aren't a proving ground for national level competitors. The large majority of our drivers do just drive for fun and aren't focused on a championship. If that really is the case, why is there a points championship at all? Why not just have events and not worry about points?

The argument is not to dilute the points down to the "least common denominator." I feel that adding drops simply makes winning a championship more accessible to those that can't make every event. I'm not saying lower the points event to the number of the least active competitor ... I'm getting the feeling that some people view it this way.

Someone tell me the down side of having drops? If it didn't at all affect the outcome of the season, why not have drops and have more competitors trying for the win? In my opinion, having drops and a meaningful championship would make the season more exciting.

With drops the best driver still wins.

I'm also with Chuck ... was having drops discussed with the membership, or just with the board? I don't even remember it being discussed with the board going by minutes or board emails ...

[TouringBubble]

P is generally the Open/Pro class. Thanks.

We ran "X" as the Pro class last season. If it's now P I will be sure to change that for 2012. I guess I missed that.

[e30Racer]

You are also basing your entire assessment on the few years you've raced in this region. With the increase in participation over the last couple of years, we could easily return to the 110+ participant events we used to have, with less novices slammed in one class and classes with 4 or 5 top runners that swap out 1st place. When that happens, it's not so cut and dry as the 2011 season. That one guy that missed an event will lose the championship over that one event, even if he was consistently in the top 3 with a few event wins.

I based my assessment on 2011 because it is the most direct assessment for how 2012 will likely turn out. There is no reason to base drops on having 110+ people when there won't be 110+ people participating at events.

I see this with SM in 2012 with C and Mark really stepping up their game in 2011 and with John having his car back on the road. It won't be Sara and I fighting for the win this season ... it will be everyone. CSP has been this way in the past and will likely return as well. Those championships used to come down to just a few points and one event deciding the season.

Negative. Neither John nor I will be running SM this year.

I'm also with Chuck ... was having drops discussed with the membership, or just with the board? I don't even remember it being discussed with the board going by minutes or board emails ...

Ok, lets do this the SCCA way. View new thread http://alscca.net/community/showthread.php?t=2873

[TouringBubble]

I based my assessment on 2011 because it is the most direct assessment for how 2012 will likely turn out. There is no reason to base drops on having 110+ people when there won't be 110+ people participating at events.

I agree. There will likely not be 110 entries at an event in 2012. But I see a few in the 80s as we has several events with 70+ drivers. I think the biggest change will be the novices. Those 25 or 30 drivers will now be filling up standard classes.

And seriously ... I didn't mean to upset anyone or challenge decisions made. I simply feel that the argument for points drops was not clearly made.

[e30Racer]

No feelings have been hurt regarding the decision making process. We have been very happy and very proud about how well 2011 went. We want 2012 to be just as successful so we didn't really want to change anything. Now it is true that the success of 2011 is likely do to the new site. As well as the friendly faces and welcoming attitude of our club members. But we just wanted to continue the success and didn't see much of a reason to change the Supps from 2011. But, that has changed as people have brought up valid reasons for having drops in the championship. So its now up to member input.

[c-evoVIII]

A poll for voting then? I also have a few points that I wanted to express in the matter, but I', going to reserve them if we r going to have a voting poll. C

[mpcavana]

We ran "X" as the Pro class last season. If it's now P I will be sure to change that for 2012. I guess I missed that.

Michael said P so I mentioned that. I carry letters for both.

[TouringBubble]

Yeah, we had a few people that expected one or the other. I will verify what Nationals is using for 2012.

[Cholewa]

You're right, it was an X, but whatever, so long as we have something.

[JohnW8]

Thankfully it's an "X"

cspp doesn't sound as awesome as CSPX

[Cholewa]

XCSP v PCSP (angel dust)

[kilgojr]

[QUOTE=I'm also with Chuck ... was having drops discussed with the membership, or just with the board? I don't even remember it being discussed with the board going by minutes or board emails ...[/QUOTE]

This was brought up over discussions of those that participate in Solo events. Not the entire ALSCCA.

We did not bring this up on the forum because frankly I didn't want ATL region saying how they did it, TVR saying how they did it, and people that don't do Solo saying how they think it is done. It was discussed with members that participate in the region and participate in the championships.

This was discussed and has been discussed over three years now.

Yes we haven't been here long and we are not making unilateral decisions. Matt, you had input on this for two years, and your side was taken into consideration. But we also discussed this with 20 or 30 other members that consistently take part in the championship. Someone who shows up for 3 events, in my mind, doesn't need to be in on this discussion.

But all this doesn't matter now, because now the whole forum can vote on whether we have drops or not.

[rodhx]

Thankfully it's an "X"

cspp doesn't sound as awesome as CSPX

I believe those would be "PCSP" vs "XCSP". X's are always cooler though...except when they are on Volvos

To get back on track, I am ambivalent about the drops. The one thing that gets glossed over in this discussion is how few drivers we have that even qualify for season-ending titles. Even the formerly super-competitive CSP class had no one qualified for the title until the last event (for a variety of reasons I know, but that was still the case). Drops/no-drops is irrelevant to 87% of our participants. And for 2011, not having drops potentially impacted only 1 class and 1 driver.

What amazes me is how the rules get put out early each year, including the complete championship points structure, yet some who are otherwise serious about pursuing a class title don't review the most important information they need. BTW, that is general comment...NOT a shot at Matt . I am an engineer...therefore I like rules, and read the rules. Boring I know, but like I said, I'm an engineer. (we need a nerd smiley)

As long it is decided before points 1 I don't care which way we go. Just don't try to change in the middle, or the end, of the season.

[kilgojr]

As long it is decided before points 1 I don't care which way we go. Just don't try to change in the middle, or the end, of the season.

THIS, WILL NOT HAPPEN. I remember that year.

[rodhx]

Yeah, that was my first year. Never did figure that one out, but I was just a noob looking in.