Time trials Nationals!!

[rodhx]

Yep, I got that also. We'll (ALSCCA) be discussing it at our Feb 13 meeting to see if we'll "partner".

CFR sounded interesting in holding their own version rather than pile on the CMP event, so there may be one coming to a track near (nearer) you Craig.

[e30Racer]

IMO, any event they can run prior to the National event in September will help them get a better idea of what to expect and the logistics of how the event will have to work. I hope at least one of these events will be held, or maybe another is being held elsewhere in another region(s), to work out any bugs. Doubt I'll make either a Carolina or Florida event, but I'll be interested to hear the feedback and results.

[e30Racer]

More info from Heyward Wagner...

http://jackbaruth.com/?p=8803

Some interesting tidbits. First, formula cars are not being classed. Second, looks to be a level 3 Time Trial on Saturday and TrackCross on Sunday. Third, all parts for “entry level” classes will have to be available from Tire Rack. You don’t have to buy from Tire Rack, but they have to be available from Tire Rack. SCCA is going to put out a full listing of all parts available and if you would like a part included, you can make that request.

[e30Racer]

More updates coming tonight from Grassroots Motorsports and Heyward.

https://www.facebook.com/grassrootsmotorsports/

[MilesCrabbe]

The rules have been out for, what, less than an hour? And I have already written and submitted an essay about an issue I found in the rules to the feedback site. Besides the rampant copy/paste errors...

For those curious what I wrote:

"In the TB/Level 2 prep tire limits, 2wd cars are limited to 305mm width tires. Common cars in this class would be Mustangs and Camaros prepped for CAMC or STP Autocross classes. In these classes a very commonly used tire is the 315/30-R18 BFGoodrich Rival S. Usage of this tire would bump these muscle cars into the TA, a class designed for cars best classified as supercars.

Recent national level results have shown almost no competitive difference between a 305/30-R19 RE-71R and the 315/30-R18 BFG. There is also no effective price difference between the two tires either.

So in the interest of garnering as much interest as possible for this new program and avoiding ostracizing a whole group of potential drivers (including myself), I would recommend allowing 315mm width tires for 2wd vehicles in the TB class."

[e30Racer]

I am glad you commented. That is the whole point of the comment period that SCCA is conducting. These rules are currently just a framework and as Heyeard mentioned, they don’t have anyone in the inner group who is running in the V8 camp or like classes. So your comments are helpful, but try not to be so negative. They aren’t intentionally trying to exclude a certain car or class, they likely just didn’t know that the 315’s are the common tire.

However, if there is no difference between the 305 and the 315, and the price is nearly the same, why can’t you run the 305?

I haven’t listened to the whole video so I’ll save any comments til later.

[e30Racer]

I liked the comments about what TT can be in terms of the quest for fastest lap times and speed. While autox and club racing is always about competitiveness and equal balance between cars, TT can be more about pure speed. Make whatever car you want as fast as you can within the rules. The idea of developing the car and yourself to see how much faster you can get, as well as the competition of those competitors around your same lap speed is what always drew me to TTs.

[rodhx]

Well stated! Nice job Miles.

I can't access the draft rules doc from work. Did the insane "all parts must be available from Tire Rack" piece actually make it? Talk about ostracizing almost your entire target demographic...

[e30Racer]

That rule is only for level 1 cars (maybe level 2, I can’t remember). I agree it is a weird rule. There is supposed to be a listing which will show all parts for your car and if you want something included you can request it. I haven’t looked at the classes yet to see what the rules say about which parts you can change.

[MilesCrabbe]

However, if there is no difference between the 305 and the 315, and the price is nearly the same, why can’t you run the 305?

Because they don't make it for 18in rims lol and I don't have a set 19x11 to mount them on. I could run 295s and I think Falken or Nexus makes a 305/30-18, but I would buy those purely for these events and I can't justify that.

Edit to say: I'm sorry if I came off negative, I actually am starting to like the design of this program. I saw this one issue that affects me and at least 6 other cars I can think of around the area of NCMMP. Most of them would probably go to this and wanted to make a point. I have some reservations with the safety rules with street prep cars, I'm worried about having a rash of boiled brake fluid and having some big "offs." NASA avoids this by having short open track sessions, like 10 mins. So you get a warmup lap, a hot lap, a second lap on overheated tires, pit in.

[MilesCrabbe]

link to rules: http://sccahq.com/time-trials-rules/ if anyone is interested

[rodhx]

That rule is only for level 1 cars (maybe level 2, I can’t remember). I agree it is a weird rule. There is supposed to be a listing which will show all parts for your car and if you want something included you can request it. I haven’t looked at the classes yet to see what the rules say about which parts you can change.

Understood. That makes it even more baffling and it makes your entry levels inaccessible to the majority of potential entrants for no reason other than sponsor. When I think of just sway bars & shocks I wouldn't be surprised if the Tire Rack limitation excludes 90%+ of all existing autocross cars.

To put it another way, I would be interested in going to NCM or possibly CMP and giving it a try. My Mustang has a Strano sway bar. Sounds like I'm excluded.

[e30Racer]

I agree it is weird. Sounds to me like this is a good way for TireRack to update their parts inventory and find out what parts people are buying so they can now sale them. Now of course you don’t have to buy the parts from TireRack, they just have to be available. It seems as though SCCA is asking everyone to come to them and let them know what parts they are using so they can make rules around the “popular” parts instead. Seems backwards to me.

[rodhx]

I wished I could access that link from work.

From reading elsewhere the "Tire Rack rule" may only include shocks. I still think that's a big problem but at least it may be somewhat constrained.

[MilesCrabbe]

I wished I could access that link from work.

From reading elsewhere the "Tire Rack rule" may only include shocks. I still think that's a big problem but at least it may be somewhat constrained.

There is a little bit of "equivalency" verbiage in the rule and the video. As in, koni shocks are sold by TireRack and the Tokico is basically the same design as a koni, so tokico is legal. As compared to say, my Whiteline rear ARB which is not sold by TireRack and doesn't look or even mount to the same places as the ARBs sold there.