Time trials Nationals!!

[JohnW8]

https://www.scca.com/articles/2008957-scca-announces-new-time-trials-nationals-event

[nicktcr]

I like the idea of a national level TT, but why this format? NASCAR qualifying style? Is that normal in other regions?

[chuck schultz]

It looks like the only thing that resembles what we are actually doing in the various Regions' TT programs is Friday's and Saturday morning's open track sessions. The actual competitions will apparently all be waiting around for single-lap runs of various segments of the track.

Is this how Time Attack events run? It certainly doesn't reflect current SCCA TT procedures in our part of the world.

It looks way too complicated, and will lose, once again, to NASA's TT program, which, at least on the Regional level, keeps it simple - "Everybody into the pool."

[DelanieC]

It's baffling... It's like someone tried really hard to come up with the worst idea. "Hmmm. How can we have the least possible track time??"

[JohnW8]

It's another "experiential" effort. I'm beginning to think that means "bad idea".

[MilesCrabbe]

Is this how Time Attack events run?

Yes... in video games. Every other real life Time Trial event seen/heard/read about was the standard multiple 10/20/30 minute session open track event.

Well at minimum it's an idea, I'll refrain from adding the adjectives good or bad until we see what happens. But if track time was the goal, they are going to fail miserably...

[JohnW8]

Not too long ago we ran three cars at a time on the track at TGPR in a time trial format. They called them pods. Cars were gridded up based on lap times to keep someone from catching the car in front of them. We ran 3 laps. A warm up, a hot lap and a cool down.Those were your timed runs. Of course you had multiple attempts to improve your time. If you caught the car in front of you, you didn't pass them you had to give up the run pull into the pits for a rerun. I can't remember how we ran our qualifying laps. I think it was done in run groups. And we liked it! Now with the "Everybody in the Pool" action Time trials is just a timed track day and nowhere near the "edge of your seat" competition it used to be. I haven't had a clean lap in a TT event for years.

[farrout]

The warm-up and 3 hot laps with no passing was a function of the SOLO based timing system used at the time. Timing system could not differentiate between cars, hence no passing. It also go confused if the following car was too close since it could not recycle fast enough. There were no qualifying laps, everything was for a time.

We went to the 20 min sessions after we started using the AMB Transponders. They gave drivers the option to pass and more on track time. Pretty much like race qualifying when not every lap is clean.


This National event is not like anything any Region is currently doing. Another brilliant idea from EP.

[JohnW8]

The warm-up and 3 hot laps with no passing was a function of the SOLO based timing system used at the time. Timing system could not differentiate between cars, hence no passing. It also go confused if the following car was too close since it could not recycle fast enough. There were no qualifying laps, everything was for a time.

That's why I don't remember qualifying sessions. Thanks Craig!

[farrout]

Chuck - I was reading the Redline Time Attack rules. Cars are gridded are released according to qual or best time. There appear to be a number of cars on track. Format is warm-up lap, maximum of 3 hot laps and a cool down. Passing is not mentioned. Allowable cars appear to be street based cars in various forms allowed. Did not see any classes for Formula, sports racers, or GCR type cars. Safety gear like we use in TT is required.

John - the conundrum for TT was retaining the old 4 cars, no passing format or going toward the multiple cars with passing format. Were drivers more interested in more track time or clean laps? Drivers leaning toward SOLO are probably more interested in the clean lap concept. Most drivers wanted the increased track time. Was TT to be a learning venue for those who wanted to advance to Road Racing? (we have had many drivers do that over the years)

The new TT National events appears to be more like a Time Attack leaning toward the SOLO experience. Is that the right approach for the future of SCCA and TT?

I have no idea what the 14 car classes will consist of. SEDIV tends to run 42-44 different car classes every year since we allow GCR, TT and SOLO based cars to run. Having spent some time investigating how to get down to fewer classes for TT, I believe it is a difficult task to do well but an easier task to screw up. If the TT Committee is able to condense the GCR, TT and SOLO based cars down into 14 equitable classes without eliminating any particular existing cars they will have been able to accomplish something that the SEB and CRB have been unable to do.

If you could determine equitably that particular car classes are capable of XX.XX lap times, then theoretically you could group them to XX +/- y seconds together. Everybody is happy then, right?

[JohnW8]

At no time will everybody be happy. It's a rule and I'm not happy about it.

[rodhx]

At no time will everybody be happy. It's a rule and I'm not happy about it.

[DelanieC]

I just watched Mr Wagner on Grassroots Motorsports Live and if I heard correctly, they're already ditching the single hot lap thing. So that's a step in the right direction for sure.

[farrout]

They do not have a clue about what they really want to do. They just threw this event out there. There are no TTR that even remotely relate to this event. There are no supps. 14 car classes are mentioned but nothing is pulled together yet.

It sounds a lot like TNIA was initially. Someone is going to show and operate this event probably on the fly. Mr Wagner is a big picture guy and has no true expertise in the minute planning it takes for this sort of event.

Keep listening because the event format will change continually.

[JohnW8]

I kind of liked the single hot lap thing. It's not really a time trial event, it sounded like an autox run on a racetrack with no cones. Might be a fun competition. No cone penalties but plenty of "Oh my God, I hit that wall hard" penalties. I wouldn't call this Time Trials though.