Time trials Nationals!!

[JohnW8]

Note: that last comment doesn't necessarily mean change or abandon the traditional TT event.

The format of what I consider traditional (PODS) has already been abandoned. The new traditional is a timed trackday with lots of safety gear. (Road race qualifying)

Trying to define what a Time Trial is difficult since it's a moving target.
TT never has had any National support so I'm not sure why the Time-trialers are getting upset other than using the TT name then making the Time-trialers feel left out.

As of now the rules aren't fleshed out and there is talk of this being about fun. Competition among your friends is fun but just as soon as someone gets named national Champion someone is going for the rulebook to claim they were cheated out of a win.

I'd support this new format. The timed track day and the one car–one lap attack. It's fun competition to know how fast your competition just ran and knowing what you need to do for a win. It adds a bit of suspense rather than just looking at time sheets at the end of a session.

[farrout]

Despite all the discussion about renaming, classing, National event, etc, there is no factual documentation available to support it. The TTR posted on SCCA are from 2017 (PDX/CT, TT/HC). No definition of the 14 classes. No supps for the National TT Event.

Given that the SEB and CRB have tried and failed to actually reduce the number of classes, I am anxiously awaiting definition of the 14 classes. If they can include Formula, SOLO and GCR cars into 14 competitive groupings, I applaud it and hope it is applicable to SOLO and Road Racing. In ours and other's TT classing structure, there are too many classes which results in single car competition where you are running against yourself.

As an example, in my P2 Stohr WF-1 I can run similar lap times to the SPO/GT-1/etc cars. I achieve those times with cornering capability while they use high HP and higher straight line speed. Should I be classed with them?

If SEDIV is going to do a Memorial Day event, the documentation (TTR, classing, supps) is critically needed now. How do drivers prepare their cars for the classing to be used if the classing definition is not available?

This new type of TT could be very good for the growth of TT but the devil is in the details!

[JohnW8]

Despite all the discussion about renaming, classing, National event, etc, there is no factual documentation available to support it. The TTR posted on SCCA are from 2017 (PDX/CT, TT/HC). No definition of the 14 classes. No supps for the National TT Event.

Given that the SEB and CRB have tried and failed to actually reduce the number of classes, I am anxiously awaiting definition of the 14 classes. If they can include Formula, SOLO and GCR cars into 14 competitive groupings, I applaud it and hope it is applicable to SOLO and Road Racing. In ours and other's TT classing structure, there are too many classes which results in single car competition where you are running against yourself.

As an example, in my P2 Stohr WF-1 I can run similar lap times to the SPO/GT-1/etc cars. I achieve those times with cornering capability while they use high HP and higher straight line speed. Should I be classed with them?

If SEDIV is going to do a Memorial Day event, the documentation (TTR, classing, supps) is critically needed now. How do drivers prepare their cars for the classing to be used if the classing definition is not available?

This new type of TT could be very good for the growth of TT but the devil is in the details!

I was wondering last night what car I could use for this event. The CSP car is no longer a TT car and I'm not buying a roll bar for one event and the ITA car might be excluded. Maybe I could run my truck.

[farrout]

I have been told that Heyward wants car classifications to be aligned with GridLife as "that makes sense". Take a look at Grid.life if you want to get an idea of the rules/classes. Depending on the class, roll bars are required. A lot of the rules/requirements/specs look a lot like the SCCA GCR or TT rules.

[e30Racer]

I'd love to try the event format beforehand, but CMP is a little far at 7+ hours. I'll likely be trying to do a couple of track days at NCM to learn the track and have some experience there come September.

I do agree that the sooner more information comes out the better. People do need time to plan and modify cars accordingly. Now to check out that gridlife website....

After looking at the gridlife rules, they are very similar to Global Time Attack and other organizations. For the most part, I like them. It's simple. On the downside, you could have a miata that is mostly stock racing against a corvette zo6 that is mostly stock in a low class. If you move up in a class and you have a miata, you'll need a turbo or an engine swap to compete with the big power cars. This is where SCCA has always differentiated itself and will create more classes to even out the competition. Unfortunately this is always a delicate balance and difficult to maintain. Which system is better? I don't know. But until I try both, I am only speculating.

[JohnW8]

I'd love to try the event format beforehand, but CMP is a little far at 7+ hours. I'll likely be trying to do a couple of track days at NCM to learn the track and have some experience there come September.

I do agree that the sooner more information comes out the better. People do need time to plan and modify cars accordingly. Now to check out that gridlife website....

After looking at the gridlife rules, they are very similar to Global Time Attack and other organizations. For the most part, I like them. It's simple. On the downside, you could have a miata that is mostly stock racing against a corvette zo6 that is mostly stock in a low class. If you move up in a class and you have a miata, you'll need a turbo or an engine swap to compete with the big power cars. This is where SCCA has always differentiated itself and will create more classes to even out the competition. Unfortunately this is always a delicate balance and difficult to maintain. Which system is better? I don't know. But until I try both, I am only speculating.

NASA does it very nicely with classes based on Power to Weight ratio. I would think the Time Attack approach would eventually have you end up with all the front runners competing in basically the same car. SCCA dilutes the fields so much you end up with 97 champions most
of whom didn't have to beat anyone to become champion.

[DelanieC]

It's my understanding that GCR cars won't be excluded by any means, they'll just have to fit into the new classes. They haven't said anything about formula cars but I wouldn't be surprised if they get left out.

I don't think the single lap thing is a good idea because it'll take up too much track time if you have any car count at all. My mind goes back to autocrosses with over a hundred entries and you get like four runs... And what about reruns of someone spins in front of you?

[JohnW8]

No reruns. You spin, you lose.
Barbaric but entertaining.

[DelanieC]

I meant if someone spins in front of you like autocross. You'd have to have more than one car on course.

[JohnW8]

Pass the spinning car. Spin to Win!
Hail Thunderdome!

[farrout]

You are debating what could happen in an event for which there are no rules, no operational doctrine, no supps, and nothing published about how it will be executed.

If one car is on track at a time and you are looking at a warm-up lap, a hot lap and a transit back to the pits, you can figure out how long that takes. If you have multiple cars on track, then there are cars on a hot lap, a warm-up and a cool-down - all at differing speeds. You could put cars out in a pod, arranged in an order and at intervals to insure that there is no passing. But, this is something that SCCA and its stewards at not used to doing. If you are using SOLO based timing systems rather than AMB Transponders, the timing becomes a complicating factor. There are many options but they still have to be worked out.

Not many people know how to work up a minute-by-minute operating schedule.

[e30Racer]

Well there are still 7 months before the event so I’ll give Nat’l some time to get something worked up.

[farrout]

Since they are talking about a tune-up event at CMP over Memorial Day weekend, there is a lot less time than you think. But just like TNIA, they have a throw it out there and fix it later attitude.

[JohnW8]

Since they are talking about a tune-up event at CMP over Memorial Day weekend, there is a lot less time than you think. But just like TNIA, they have a throw it out there and fix it later attitude.

I guess that's the way of experiential stuff. Throw it together for fun, see if everyone likes it, then worry about the details in the subsequent events. That way there's a new program without a bunch of time invested in the rules and details. If it's not well received then they didn't have a lot in the attempt.

I don't know. I just want to drive my cars and have fun.

[farrout]

In an email from Heyward:
"A quick note on the Memorial Day event- we have been in touch with the track and it looks like the pricing is going to work for us. Thus far we have interest or commitment from NCR, CCR, SCR, ATL, TVR and CFR- with conversations continuing with others. If you or your region would like more information, I am pasting the initial communication about the event below, as always I am happy to answer questions."