#2 course critique

[Erv]

All comments welcome.

First I wanna go on record and say that the course WILL NOT be that tight again ever. That said I enjoyed a couple aspects of today's course, mainly the back end. I think the novices looked at going through the offset slalom both ways which I feel is good. It was considerably tighter due to criticism of my last course lacking technicality.

Secondly, I wanted to test the flow of the course, but, was unable to due to novice meeting. It appeared tight, but, i wasn't sure of the flow. So my(our) bad. Even without the test flow, I feel that the only part that was too busy was the start up to the first turn around. That said, I don't feel that the course was hard to follow.

Lastly, please constructive criticism. If you had an issue please bring it forward, and, by all means don't be afraid to approach Chris, Sean, or myself(for that matter whoever is setting up the course). We won't bite, hard.

[engled]

I liked it, when I walked it I said "this sucks" but it wasn't bad at all. Contrary to popular belief, the course favored horsepower. It did not favor a momentum car like I drive but it was still very fun. I'll give it 3.7 out of 5 cones, it would have been a been a sold 4.2 but Lyle beat me.

[Erv]

dang it Lyle. anything in particular you liked??

[VroomGrrl]

I enjoyed the course!

I notice you addressed the "fast finish" issue from last time! No 60+ mph thru there today - not without taking out some cones.

Tight - yes it was! I really struggled with that offset slalom followed by the rt-left box. I did the approaching slalom both ways. It was either wallow thru the slalom against the offset and get a good entry for the box, or take the straighter line thru the slalom with a really tight turn to get to the box entry at the end. And I consider my struggles with this a lack of skill and experience, not an "issue" with the course! I rode shotgun with three people who managed that feature juuuuust fine in my car.

As a novice, what I liked most about it was that the features came fast enough that it was hard to get lost. THOUGH I STILL MANAGED TO GET LOST ON MY FUN RUN. Ahem.

Thank you so much for your work designing courses. I am sure that over the rest of the season's events, we will see many different kinds of courses, slow and fast, tight and open. I like the variety as each one presents a whole new set of challenges for me. Again, as a novice, I like the change-up from event to event because I figure by the end of the year, I will have been exposed to pretty much every kind of course and a wide variety of features.

Again, thank you!!!

[Erv]

Thanks Kathy, I appreciate it, I still haven't pulled all the tricks out of the bag. So look for more features to come

[Jamie Holladay]

Ervin,
The course was tight. Like Daryl said it favored cars like STIs, Evos, S2000s that can break hard and get right back in the gas. I think there were a couple of gates that could have been remove, a couple of cones that could have been pulled and a feature that could have been made less extreme. Had that been done I think you would have accomplished both of your goals which were a short (50 sec) course and a techinical one.

Course designing is an art form. We know that everyone is not going to like every genre of art. The idea is to design a course that will allow the most participants to have sucessful runs. You have to remember that everyone does not drive and STI, that everyone does not drive a miata and only a few drive Corvetts. Try designing features that give something to each one. give the corvette a section for power, the miata's a place they can breeze through that the rest of us may have to work through. Every gate does not have to be 15'. The challenge is to design a feature that rewards the driver for taking the right line to get to the next feature.

What I would like to suggest is in the future (as I did last season on one of my designs) is watch the first few cars go through. if there is a spot that is "trouble" massage it quickly. If there is a cone the "everyone" is hitting then it needs to be rethought. Making a quick change at the beginning (whether it is pulling a cone or widing a gate or adding a pointer) will allow for a more enjoyable and successful day for everyone.

Hope this helps.

[Erv]

I think that problem would have been remedied had we gotten a chance to do a quick drive thru. For the record only 3 gates were minimum, but, that was in the fastest part of the course.

I apologize for not listening to you in the trailer, but, I was doing T&S.

It may have favored faster cars, but, I can ASSURE you the STi was not in it's element.

thanks for the input, I'll take it to heart.

[Shea Serian]

It may have favored faster cars, but, I can ASSURE you the STi was not in it's element.

I told you.

IMHO, parts fo the course flowed well and other left you going "what tha".

Just a suggestion, if you are going to put a corner after coming down the hill to turn back up the hill don't make it so extreme. After the long sweeper, you came down the hil and then had to turn 120 degrees back up the hill. These corners are hard on tires and especially for the newbies who tend to push hard to get a feel for the car. It seems like ever novice was rolling the tires over and plowing through this section. The fact that BRC slopes down just adds to the severity of the turn.

The tighter corners going up the hill are not a problem, it's just when you carry a speed of mach eleventy billion down the hill and have to claw back up to make a gate that concerns me.

It has been suggested before that a feature could be used to slow cars down before they get to the crossovers. This would allow the cars to go across the cross over in a straight line at a slow enough speed and not have the suspension going through some crazy flexing.

And lastly, the pesky pointer cone after the finish line. Why? Hehe.


Guess I just need to get used to more than 11 cones per course. Autocross ain't RallyCross.

[zukitek]

i hate I missed this event .Sounds like a fun one but then again they all are.I do PBOC at Barbers every year in teh spring and fall so its sorta a commitment .I lok forward to April.

RR

[EvoLady]

i enjoyed the course a lot Erv. sure it was a bit tight in spots but that makes it more challenging. and like Kathy said its great to have variety! one fast one, one tight one so on and so on. as far as the novice and club class participants i didn't hear any negative remarks about your course, meaning they were not feeling like it was too hard for them so thats good too.

oh and sorry i messed up your drive through. i didnt know you were going to do that i was just trying to get the novice meeting and walk through done in time for the regular drivers meeting. i'll make sure to wait till the drive through is done before we head out. maybe you can let me know when you have about 10 min of work left to do on the course so i can start the meeting and then walk through when all is clear.

keep up the good work guys!

[JohnW8]

Nice course Ervin. Tight and challenging in places and built in traps to catch you when you think you can floor it. I like variety in course design. Fast flowing then tight technical. Nice job! I give it 4.2 cones since I beat Lyle.

Sorry if I was grumpy in the grid, I simply didn't understand what was going on with all the cars spread out so far and placed in order of class. That kinda hurts grid when everyone wants to ride with their buddies in the same class that are parked right next to them.
We had to double back several times to get all the unattended cars their runs. Grid doesn't need to be so complicated.

[TouringBubble]

The course seemed very torque friendly, though I only drove it once. I could see turbo and low displacement cars having trouble in a few spots ... mainly the tight sections that led uphill. I was going really easy on the 7 since it wasn't my car, but it groaned up the hills in 2nd out of boost. I would have loved a nice 3.0+ NA car to take on that course.

I did like that the course kept you busy. Like Kathy said, it was hard to get lost. Looking ahead seemed to pay off more than usual.

[Demon_ni2]

From a spectators view you could really tell where everyone was having trouble. Definately a tight course, and just about everyone hit the same 4 or 5 cones near the beginning. At first i thought it may have looked confusing, but after a ride or two i noticed how tight a few of the turns were, speed was the enemy for surtain cars because of moveability.

The smallers cars definatelly looked like they had a much easier time screaming around the course and only thing slowing them down were a couple of the uphill pulls.


Overall i thought the course design was nice, kept everyone busy. Only thing i did notice is that compareing it to the last few finishes that ive seen, i think the faster finishes are more enjoyable to watch and drive. Can't wait till next months meet, ill be ready to run my car by then.

[e30Racer]

My first impressions on the walk-through were a little eye-popping. I didn't think anyone was ever going to get out of first in the first section. The back half looked a little more reasonable with some good open running room and good flow.

BUT...it was a sooo much better than I thought once you got out on the course and started driving it. The first half of the course required good technique, getting the car to pivot around from gate to gate. I feel like this part of the course emphasized good rhthym and smoothness for me. The second half was an absolute blast i thought! The slalom was great, giving an option to the driver. The "back-straight" was really fun, getting some good speed heading down hill, getting hard on the brakes, but still trying to carry enough speed to get back up the hill. Then again, with the left sweeper to the down hill zone with a hard left hander was the same as well, getting good speed with hard braking. Overall I would give the course a 4/5.

To me, different is always a welcome change! Each driver likes different courses, and I enjoyed this course very much.

[Jedi1]

Speaking of 1st gear. There was this little white 911 that I got handed the keys to and on lap number 2 I didn't shift it out of first until the run downhill for the second half of the course. I banged the limiter a bit but it wasn't that shabby a lap.

All in all, I liked the course alot. It's been awhile since we had a mega technical layout.