#2 course critique

[DAB21]

it's just when you carry a speed of mach eleventy billion down the hill and have to claw back up to make a gate that concerns me.

DANG! I knew that car was fast, but I had no idea it was that fast! Can I ride next time

[Cholewa]

After thinking about it, this course was clearly not fwd friendly. There were too many sharp turns that were followed by gates set off a tad too far to the side. Getting out of the corners after dropping all of the speed I had, and trying to get any speed back before the next feature was nearly impossible. The back half of the course was fine, but the front half was too tight for my baby fwd car. And why do we always have to do everything off camber? can we not use the brc's slope to our advantage?

All in all I enjoyed the course, but I felt as though it could have been a bit more spaced out. For a 60 second course it was tiny and rewarded people who had grip, not people who took the correct lines. When miatas sweep the fastest times without anyone coming close, it lets you know what's up.

[DAB21]

Sorry if I was grumpy in the grid, I simply didn't understand what was going on with all the cars spread out so far and placed in order of class. That kinda hurts grid when everyone wants to ride with their buddies in the same class that are parked right next to them.
We had to double back several times to get all the unattended cars their runs. Grid doesn't need to be so complicated.

Sorry, John if it caused trouble, we're working on a revised website. Part of the change is to get pictures featuring a group (like CSP) and stories too. Sorting the Grid by class gives us an opportunity we wouldn't otherwise have. It facilitates the newer entrants to rub shoulders with and learn who their competitors are, and, it also lets that group compare times and socialize in between runs. The building of camaraderie is one of the key things in building club membership. I really cannot remember the last time we ran 120 cars, but we did do just that several times, and to the amazement of the folks from other clubs. It very much helps us stay in the black, too.

If we decide to continue sorting by class just let the Grid Chief know your group wants to "run when ready" and flash your lights when you need to cue-up. The computer timing is not affected by the actual run order, so it is a "win-win". Gridding by class accomplishes our needs and would be almost impossible otherwise. Mod cars have historically always been given special treatment, and there is no reason we cannot do the same for a highly competitive group. That’s another feature that makes this club great, and stand out.

If we can get the desired "structural" changes to the website, we will cover each event and up-date the site with current pics, groups, stories, etc. One story will of course be the "running saga of the CSP Sherriff." Another will be the NOOB of the month, etc. We have a great opportunity to grow our club and better enjoy it between events if we can just make a few adjustments. This last event was a trial run for some routines which are working well. I doubt there will be any other "field" changes on an event day, the balance being with the website itself. That said, we will be looking for "contributors" to supply info, back stories, dirt, pix, etc, in addition to our reporting. More on that later.

We thank everyone for your understanding and hope any inconvenience was minor.

[JohnW8]

Sorry, John if it caused trouble, we're working on a revised website. Part of the change is to get pictures featuring a group (like CSP) and stories too. Sorting the Grid by class gives us an opportunity we wouldn't otherwise have. It facilitates the newer entrants to rub shoulders with and learn who their competitors are, and, it also lets that group compare times and socialize in between runs. The building of camaraderie is one of the key things in building club membership. I really cannot remember the last time we ran 120 cars, but we did do just that several times, and to the amazement of the folks from other clubs. It very much helps us stay in the black, too.

I see what you're going for. I don't see what the opportunity was that we otherwise didn't have? The entire event from breakfast at Cracker Barrel to picking up the cones is a social activity. The grid needs, in my opinion, to be for getting the run group through as quickly and efficiently as possible. Putting all the Z-Club cars together created a situation that if they wanted to ride with their buddy it left an unattended car that had to be worked back into the rotation delaying the run group. As far as getting to know our competitors, I think we are familiar with our fellow class competitors, if someone new shows up there is usually a "inspection" and introductions made. Separating us into class groupings hinders the opportunity for us to talk with others outside our class. I'm all for increasing club membership but I think it can be done with consistency in the operation and maybe talking up the membership benefits more. I have an idea that I'm going to bring up at the next board meeting for helping on that front. I still have much to learn.

[g1teg]

I thought after walking the course and watching the first run group that the course was going to be no fun at all. I was wrong. From the offset slalom to the finish was just fine. Before that was just way too busy. We could've picked up a couple gates and a few strategic cones and it would've flowed nicely. The finish was not nearly as bad as I thought it would be.

For the record, I hit ZERO cones on my 1st-4th run, and only picked one up on the fifth run by trying something that I knew probably wouldn't work!

My main suggestion would be this. Even though the rulebook puts a minimum slalom distance of 45 ft., the real minimum distance to have fun with is about 60 ft. The same applies to any series of gates that simulate a slalom. Also, you can minimize the off camber situation of BRC by running clockwise.

[Focus]

I agree that it was nicely technical, looked like a pain, and turned out very fun! The FWD cars really were struggling, which the results should show. I don't mind the tight parts, but the fast parts immediately after them were all about torque. I DO like getting to actually use my brakes. Fast into slow into fast is a pain. Fast into slow into medium into fast can be appreciated by more of the competitors. I'd give it a 4/5 if we learn from this, but 2/5 if we don't.

[jimkana]

Jaime is right that course designing is an art and when I was doing it, I got it wrong as often as I got it right, so don't think I am saying any of this for any reason other than to help you get better. I didn't sit down to write a treatise on this but here is what poured forth from my little bit of grey matter (no, not my hair):

Here are some rules of thumb that I found helpful:

1. Build your course, then take out every other feature.
Often you have this fantastic flow in mind, but when you actually build it, it becomes torture. I liked some of the ideas in the first segment, up to the acute angle leading uphill, but it would have been a lot more fun and just as technical if it had been spread out over 2 sections, or half of those items had been removed.

2. Hard is not equal to technical
Technical means rewarding the driver for following the right line. Just because it is tight and requires wrestling the car around, does not make it a test of ability. If it slows you down so much that everyone is going the same speed no matter what the skill level, did it really accomplish what you were after?

3. When you make a difficult section, follow it with a fun section
Everyone likes to go fast, that is why we are there. Have at least one section where we can let it all hang out. Lead it with something where the car can really dance and follow it with a non-jolting slowdown. Everyone will thank you for that. I thought the top section following the crossover was a nice reward for the painful end to the slalom. Good Job!
I could do with that slalom's ending being a little more open though. If the last cone were not there, we still would have had to slow to get the entry right, and not had to basically stop and start over.

4. Get the slowing down done before the crossover, and let us drive straight through, with the car settled and accelerating. Again the top crossover was a good example of this, so good job!


I liked the non-standard use of the area to work with and thought the ending was an elegant solution to the problem of stopping us without running into the start. Good Job! I thought you had a fantastic missed opportunity to have a good momentum section on-camber with the turn up the hill at the beginning. Sean said that you thought about doing that, but couldn't fit the other features in and still do that. Probably drop the slalom following the C-box and just have one cone/feature down low to position everyone to shoot up the hill.

I hate to be a stickler for the rules, but driving though in ANY wheeled vehicle (bicycle, skateboard, etc.) by anyone participating in the event, is not allowed in SCCA. I don't run in your class, but if I did, it would be hard not to file a protest over that, if the class was competitive. People from other regions coming in will probably not look kindly on that practice, if it becomes normal. Just do your best and let the chips fall where they may.

And despite what I have said about how hard is not equal to technical, unless the course is dangerous, it should not be changed just to save a cone. Cones are there to die.

[Erv]

well thought out pros and cons

hopefully you guys'll enjoy the next course I have a chance too build.

One thing of note, there is NO WAY to run BRC on camber. By starting in the middle I applied on and off camber turns.

[g1teg]

I agree with Eric except for one thing. The rule about no wheeled vehicles before the competition only applies to Divisionals and Nationals. We've routinely test run the course with the designer and safety steward in the car together for some time now. We only drive a section at a time, then correct cones as needed. We never run the entire course at once, and never at speed. It is just a better and quicker way to tweak the course before the event starts, and really provides no advantage to anyone.

[Cholewa]

This has nothing to do with the course layout, but at the next event can we PLEASE not run all of the stock people first? the past two events we've gotten the cold tarmac. The sizes of the run groups are fine, but we don't need to put the same rungroups first every time, it's not fair for one group to run at 10 every event, and the other to have the opportunity to wake up, stand around, prep their car, eat a nice lunch, and then drive the course.

/rant

[claym]

Local clubs are allowed to tweek their rules some (such as drive thru, street tire classes, novice classes, and allowing passengers during timed runs- esp if passengers are also competetors) to attract new participants and to meet their local needs. Some clubs even have a drive thru after course is complete (at slow speeds) to allow people to find course and minimize DNFs during competetion.

[Erv]

we have recce runs before, and warren is correct nothing is done at speed it is more to check the flow of the course. and it is usually 3-4 gates at a time

[jimkana]

Well, if Clay and Chris agree it must be okay.

I know that I always understood that as a rule and we followed it when we built courses. I have never seen Clay or Charles drive through a course they built.

But is there a limit? Like one guy who I won't name but whose initials are SEAN YODER, who has taken about 50 drive throughs at several events.

I won't file a protest unless you let other B-Stock drivers do it.

[slowautoxr]

It comes with experience.

[ExplosEvo]

As a novice I thought the course overall was pretty good. I will say I enjoyed the previous course more, but I think that is because it was more suited to my car. With this course, I found that my best bet was running in first gear all the way to the transition on the backside of the track. I finally shifted into second after that wicked S turn, but then coming into the finish, I had no throttle response at all after coming out of the final slalom. I basically rolled through the finish completely bogged down everytime. I also seemed to bump over some phantom cones that I had NO idea where I was hitting them. I had a couple clean runs, but I had several plus ones that I was completely in the dark about. Overall it was great fun as usual though.

Next time though we should put up a dome and get some heaters! Thats easy right?