Are these legal?

[JohnW8]

Another fun weekend of AutoX competition is in the books and I'm beat! The "arrive and drive" plan with Darryl worked out great in my opinion. His car was a monster in Huntsville and let us get the top 2 times of the day as well as top pax. A big thanks and kudos to the Novices that traveled. That is a huge benefit to the overall scoring of the North vs South competition.

Sunday it was so hot by the time we got to the third run group my tired 13" tires were giving up and each run was slower. The small group and 2 drivers meant we were still changing number when it was time to go. The tires got hot and we couldn't cool them off enough. Congrats to Leon Drake and Brandon Davis for taking home the top times.

During these weekends there's always car discussions, duh. Rules discussions and various chit chat. I hear at least once per weekend event, are these/is that legal? We are a club that is supposed to run our events according to National SCCA rules. Meaning we have classes and rules for those classes. If you are building a car for XYZ class it stands to reason you would follow the ruleset for XYZ class. Right? That makes sense. I know that it would be cool to try out the latest new go fast bolt on goodies, and besides, what does it matter if those rules don't allow certain things to be changed on the car? This is for fun right? I want to run XYZ class cause that's where I can be most competitive. BUt who's gonna care if I bolted on a new gadget just to try it out for a while?

True, AutoX is supposed to be for fun but we have the ruleset to keep it fair and to keep us inline with the National classing and rules structure. Some of you may never decide to go to a National Tour and that's fine. Although you really are missing out on a lot of fun, fast competition. The local mindset at every region I've been too is that if you have illegal motor mounts or whatever, as long as you get the approval of your fellow class competitors, you
are fine. The problem with this is that you might go somewhere else, beat some one at an event, and you get disqualified. That part that no one cared about locally all of the sudden is low hanging fruit and easy pickings.

Determine what you want to do with AutoX and play by the rules. If you want to build a car to class specs, as my attorney says, the SCCA rule book is somewhat clear. If you want to build a car to play regardless of a certain ruleset, there's a class for that too. ALSCCA is very accommodating.

Discussion?

[TouringBubble]

I have given that advice to people on occasion, but I try to preface it with "this isn't legal if you go to a national event." If you think about it, it's no different at a national event though. Classing is up to the driver, not the competitors or the event officials. If you install X part and run in a class where it's not legal and your opponents don't contest, it doesn't matter.

My take is that drivers should understand the rule book and classifications. If they know a part isn't legal but don't think it's a big deal, they should run it by their competitors. If they don't mind, then it's no one else's business. That said ... "I didn't know" isn't really acceptable. If they really don't know, they should find out FIRST.

Local SM has been run this way for a long time. Honestly, most of the SM cars were BSP/ASP legal but ran in SM for a common class. Some weren't SM legal but it made sense to let them race there for the competition. Katie ran ST for a season in an STX car due to lack of STX drivers, but all ST guys were cool with it.

Now, running an STX car in ST at nationals would never fly ... and Katie knew that, as did I.

I guess in short ... knowing the rules enough to know your part isn't legal is the key. From there you can make the call to talk to others to gauge their issues with it, and you understand that people could contest you and you'd not have a leg to stand on. Just own it, either way.

[rodhx]

I am struggling with this right now as I had a conversation with a driver who is knowingly running a SM/SP car in an ST class. I suggested he start running in the correct class. The only nobrainer SM thing that I know of is a missing rear seat, but there are some serious performance mods that are ST illegal and should therefore be in SP. I run my M3 in BSP due solely to the replaced radiator. Stupid thing to bump me out of STU since it is a reliability issue instead of performance, but rules are rules. I like this guy and he shows up regularly. Someone needs to say "you can't run that class anymore", but how do we do that?

By the way, in my opinion the "this isn't legal if you go somewhere else" preface should only be used on minor infractions. Any resembling an actual performance mod must be addressed.

Matt's examples are slightly different. Katie running ST was agreed upon by the local class so that's no big deal, unless a new person showed up and protested in which case there would have been little choice but to put her back in STX for at least that event. SP bumping themselves to SM is just a choice the drivers make (unless of course there are SP allowances that don't carry over to SM).

[TouringBubble]

Yeah, minor infractions is what I was talking about. To mention one specific example ... there was a driver in DSP that had a brace in the rear of the car behind the seat. Technically that bumps him out of the SP and SM classes because it used multiple attachment points. However, given the minimal difference that mod makes and the need for DSP competition, I talked him in to staying and racing with Katie. I believe someone didn't like it and now he's running in a proper class. He knew exactly why and was fine with it I think.

Now, another good example of mods that shouldn't be looked over would be boost control and tuning. You can tune some cars in the ST classes, but you can't swap the ECU or change boost levels in any way. So, cars like the Evo, WRX, MS3, GTI, etc can TECHNICALLY have their ECUs flashed, but the boost levels and control methods have to be kept stock. As we know, you can crank up the boost and get lots of power from many of these cars, and that's a clear advantage.

The rule can seem "gray" to novices that just see "tuning allowed" and don't get in to the details. Also, as virtually no one tunes these boosted cars and leaves the boost levels stock, it's easy to assume that a generic "tune" is legal.

This is something that I've brought up to drivers before and I get mixed responses. Some are like "I didn't know, I'll change classes," ad others argue and complain because they probably did know and wanted an advantage maybe. But yeah, it's a big deal in those cases and the discrepancy should be pointed out.

[c-evoVIII]

I believe that as long as the driver bump UP in class instead of DOWN for example: BSP/ ASP car in SM, it is still within the rule set of both classes, and not the other way around its fine. I completly understand that we are a local event and the rule set are not STRONGLY/ STRICTLY enforced and if theres an agreement upon the drivers it is not frawn upon, but we have classes for a reason and too many IMO so im sure we can find a class for every cars at our events. I do understand that being the only competitor in a class is no fun.

PS: I also believe it is the responsobility of the driver and class mate to keep an eye out for such modification to help place car in proper class, and not TECH. So if you see it please help by talking to the driver and help correct the problem. But!!!!!, dont be a !@#$% and call someone out because they removed their badge from the car. this is just my .02 C

[rodhx]

I also believe it is the responsobility of the driver and class mate to keep an eye out for such modification to help place car in proper class, and not TECH. So if you see it please help by talking to the driver and help correct the problem. But!!!!!, dont be a !@#$% and call someone out because they removed their badge from the car. this is just my .02 C

quoted for truth. It is absolutely not Tech's job to provide classing deteminations (although they might help out just to be friendly ). They are there to get the cars inspected...nothing more.

[viccath5]

it sounds good to say our classes are self governed by the driver and others in his class but, as we know drivers can be dishonest and ignorant and many times the others running in the class may not be comfortable with the confrontation it may cause and instead they lose interest and become fustrated at getting beat by someone running illegally. If the "drivers" were responsible and handled it with his competitors that would work but we know that doesn't always happen either.

I also feel the class rules are there for a reason and we should abide by them, including the local region events. I believe the more experienced and outspoken should apply peer pressure to those we know are not correctly classed. Most of the time, the miss classed will do what is right with peer pressure alone.

I would not endorse passing any of the correct classing enforcement on to the club, club officers, slalom master, and/or slalom chairman though.

[claym]

Ignorance of rules and laws are not a legitimate defense (unless you are a government employee)....

This is a volunteer club where people who participate should KNOW and FOLLOW the rules. I have chosen to stay in stock class because it is much cheaper to follow the fewer rules there AND stay 100% legal! Once you open up Pandora's box in a class allowing mods, the person who maxes their car to the rules in their class (in a correct manner) will usually have a better car for the class. One you cross the line with an unauthorized mod, you are IMMEDIATELY bumped to the class that allows that mod (and will need to mod all the other areas to again make your car prepped competitively in that class). I have seen protests to cars that had obvious mods beyond what was allowed in that class (whether they added any performance advantage or not). Remember, there are rules for REMOVAL of items that originally came on the car (like interior and exterior). Ignorance was not acceptable. YOU are responsible for the condition and safety of your car. Blaming Bush (or anyone else to be politically correct for Darryl) is no longer acceptable.

Actually, blaming others for your mistakes is never acceptable....

[jledford]

I believe the more experienced and outspoken should apply peer pressure to those we know are not correctly classed. Most of the time, the miss classed will do what is right with peer pressure alone.

I've tried, some still won't bump even when I tell them at registration that we can change their class.

[Chuck Baader]

Simple: If you don't correct your class/mod/cheat by the next event, we will move you to the appropriate class.

[TouringBubble]

Simple: If you don't correct your class/mod/cheat by the next event, we will move you to the appropriate class.

But that requires someone else to verify classing. It's up to the driver to class the car, and the other competitors can contest if they wish.

[bimmertech]

But that requires someone else to verify classing. It's up to the driver to class the car, and the other competitors can contest if they wish.

Right. Allyou can do is advise the driver of the proper class and dnf the runs if he/she chooses to be non-compliant. You can't change thir class against their will just so they can gain points.

[claym]

But that requires someone else to verify classing. It's up to the driver to class the car, and the other competitors can contest if they wish.

From 2013 Solo Rulebook (www.scca.com)



3.8 REQUIRED DOCUMENTATION
The entrant has the burden of proving that the vehicle conforms to
these Rules by the required documentation for the category/class, as
noted below. The required documentation should be considered as an
extension of these Rules.
A. Stock, Street Touring®, Street Prepared, and Street Modified – The
official manufacturer service documentation for the make, model,
and year of the vehicle as entered, if ever available to the consumer
from the manufacturer. Additional official manufacturer service documentation
for other years and/or models may also be required to
cover equipment and/or specifications authorized by update/backdate
allowances. Other official manufacturer documentation, such
as the owner’s manual, shop manual, parts catalogs, technical bulletins,
sales & marketing literature, or Monroney window sticker, may
be provided as supporting information. All manufacturer documentation
must be for non-competition purposes.
B. Cars prepared to SCCA® Club Racing rules (Showroom Stock, Improved
Touring, American Sedan, Touring, Spec Miata, Production,
GT, Formula cars, Sports Racers, etc) – Current year GCR and appropriate
Category Specifications plus any additional documentation
required by those rules. Logbooks are not required.
C. Prepared category, A Modified class (AM), D Modified class (DM),
and E Modified class (EM) – No additional documentation required


Also...

3.5 MUFFLERS
Adequate mufflers are required for Solo® events. The criterion of “adequacy”
is not what the exhaust system consists of, but the sound level.
Any car deemed by the Event Chairman or his designated representative
to be excessively loud shall not compete without acceptable modifications
installed on the car.

Doesn't have to be a sound meter. Let's please be proactive and not upset the neighbors.

[bimmertech]

There is also another part to this other than "rules are rules" and fair competition.

Someone who comes to am event and thinks they should run outside the rules for the sake of competition, no matter how small the infraction is setting themselves up for a limited career. They probably do so initially looking for a class where they will be competitive even though they only plan on running a few times. You know, just to try it out. Next thing they're hooked and having a great time. Then it starts to become unfair to other competitors in the class.

Down the road a little farther and said driver decides to try a national tour or similar event. They have the experience to go, but all of a sudden they realize they can't take the car they've been doing well in locally so they just sit it out, never becoming more competitive.

My point is; what starts out as a small excuse will eventually limit the fun-factor for someone.

[HPEVOX]

I'm not going to fib here. I don't know every single rule about all 5k classes at our events lol. I know my class rules and that is about it. However when I am teching and I see a stock class car with maybe some upgrades I generally ask about it to get the guilt trip going so they might actually class themselves correctly. I know some cars are fully gutted and do NOT run in the appropriate class. Multiple people have said something about it to the driver, but he/she hasn't changed to the correct class. What's there to do? And some are just so hard to tell. Like an STU car. How do you know if this guy has changed his mapping? You really have to take most peoples word for it. Every driver should know their class and be a big boy/girl and run it like they're supposed to. If they don't then and you are the one that sees this or is upset about it should make it known to the driver and a member to protest and have him classed correctly or dq'd. If anyone knows that someone is running an incorrect class, please let me know who and what the violation is. I would be more than happy to check it while teching. You can pull me to the side or PM me on here and I would be sure to tell them the correct class and why. If nothing is done, I can go to the Kilgore Gods and discuss it further. LET ME KNOW OR I MIGHT MISS IT. You can remain anonymous. So now tech gets a little more meticulous.