North vs South

[bimmertech]

Stu does get a better pax than sm.. You cannot run novice once you have moved to open (it wouldn't help anyway).

[HPEVOX]

Ok wasn't aware of the Novice part of that. I guess i'll run STU then so that will at least get one of us out of SM. More points for the South!!

[White Hot]

Ok wasn't aware of the Novice part of that. I guess i'll run STU then so that will at least get one of us out of SM. More points for the South!!

Very optimistic aren't we?

[c-evoVIII]

thinking..XP??? C

[TouringBubble]

I'm pretty sure I can run STU. Just read the rule section and I comply. That will get one of us out of SM, unless someone else plans to run that class already?
And as far as that goes, I can still run Novice if that helps us any. Just let me know which is best. I don't want to run SM, since C, sara and matt will be in there already and we will take from our total points. So I can Run STU or NSTU. Y'all tell me.

If your car is tuned you are out of STU. You can tune in STU, but not modify the boost levels or boost control system. Basically all Evo tunes change boost.

But, you can probably run BSP. I'm pretty sure C is the only SM car in the bunch due to his turbo swap. BSP allows for pretty mcuh all exhaust/intake/tuning/suspension changes that are common on Evos. As long as you don't change to solid bushings or change geometry of suspension or steering, and you have the stock turbo and cams, you are good for BSP.

Sadly, Katie and I will not be around for these events, so if the SM crowd wanted to run BSP, it would make the paints more fair toward the end of the season ... =)

[HPEVOX]

I thought it was only if you directly change the boost levels via MBC or the ECU, not if the timing is changed or other parameters that indirectly effect boost levels?
Didn't want to run BSP because I know some run slicks in there and i'm on Street Tires.

[TouringBubble]

If you have a tune on that car, the boost levels are changed. I can almost guarantee it. As far as I know, I'm the only tuner that offers SCCA ST legal Evo tunes. If it's stock, sure, you're legal.

As mentioned above, your place in class doesn't matter. It's your raw and PAX times that score points. So, running BSP won't change your raw times, and will benefit your PAX. Make sense?

[HPEVOX]

Yeah i'm running 2lbs more than stock, just thought it meant a direct boost change like MBC or directly altering boost. Either way just whichever one I can run and get best points for us is all i'm looking for. Not trying to be a criminal lol

[Sparky]

How do you interpret this then?

14.10.F "...Boost changes indirectly resulting from allowed modifications are permissible,
but directly altering or modifying the boost or turbo controls,
either mechanically or electronically, is strictly prohibited."

[TouringBubble]

If you change timing/fuel and boost changes on its own, that's fine. But if you change the boost control tables in the ECU, it's not legal. That's how Evos are tuned ... the boost control tables are modified.

To illustrate ...



Change any of this, you're not ST legal. The offset, WGDC or target tables directly change the boost levels using stock hardware. The correction interval, max duty correction and error correction tables change how boost is regulated, and could cause you to be illegal for ST depending on the alteration I guess. That's debatable.

Make sense?

[EvoLady]

You guys went way over my head! LOL I think we are stuck in SM or like C said we could split up and go SM and XP but XP has an even higher pax than SM. What about SM T?? Is that a better pax and can we run that??

[TouringBubble]

Sara, if you have stock turbo/cams you should be able to run BSP for the better PAX. C is stuck in SM.

I heard that doing the trailing arm bushings wasn't legal in SM due to the ratio of metal to rubber in the stock ones versus the replacements. Basically, the info I got was that the stock bushings were all rubber and replacements had a metal insert, which is not legal in SP. But, when doing mine, I had metal inserts in the stock ones ... not sure if the 8 is different.

But, that bushing (if stock is 100% rubber), the roll center correction kits (which C has) and the steering correction kits all alter geometry/material ratios and are not SP legal.

If you don't have those, you can run BSP for the PAX.

[Cholewa]

You guys went way over my head! LOL I think we are stuck in SM or like C said we could split up and go SM and XP but XP has an even higher pax than SM. What about SM T?? Is that a better pax and can we run that??

You could always run LSM

[jledford]

If your car is tuned you are out of STU. You can tune in STU, but not modify the boost levels or boost control system. Basically all Evo tunes change boost.

So by this logic the guy I barely beat at the last TAC/TVR event that was running a Cobb tune with 17psi on his WRX STi really shouldn't have been in Novice STU but a Novice SP class?

Even though I couldn't match his RAW time it makes me feel better for being able to at least out PAX him

[TouringBubble]

Seems like it. the Cobb "staged" tunes change boost levels, so they are not STU legal. the catch is always the ability to prove it.

Many people simply misunderstand the rules. They see the part that says you can tune the car and just don't catch the part that says no boost changes. Also, many people don't understand what all changes when a car is tuned.