What is PAX?

[TouringBubble]

I've answered this question a few times for novices running in our N class that aren't sure what PAX times mean. So, here is an explanation ...

PAX times attempt to compare DRIVERS and nullify the advantage of having a faster car.

Basically, classes with faster cars have a higher PAX value. This value is multiplied to the time you run resulting in your PAX time.

AM cars always have a PAX value of 1.000. The rest of the classes have values based on the previous year's results from national level events and local results from clubs with some of the fastest drivers.

Here is an applied example of how PAX times work.

Compare three drivers in stock classes. Driver A is in a Lotus Exige in SS class, Driver B in a Mustang Cobra in FS and Driver C in a Mini Cooper in HS. All drivers manage a flat 60 second run on the course.

Formula - Raw*Pax Modifier=PAX Time

Driver A - 60*0.857=51.420
Driver B - 60*0.827=49.620
Driver C - 60*0.791=47.460

So, Driver C in the Mini would seem to be a much more capable driver than the others even though they ran the same raw times. (It should be noted that Driver C is not #42.)

For a list of 2011 PAX values, look here ... http://www.scca-chicago.com/solo/indexes/rtp2011.html

[mpcavana]

AM cars always have a PAX value of 1.000. The rest of the classes have values decided on by the SCCA national office and are based on the previous year's results from national level events and local results from clubs with some of the fastest drivers.
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The SCCA does not have anything to do with PAX. Rick Ruth sets PAX values at the start of the year and by common consensus the rest of us agree.

As you stated, Rick samples results from regional, divisional and national results to determine the values. They are on a par with stock derivatives since they have similar assumptions about reality. However, since this is a shared delusion the autocross community accepts the concept as does Wall Street.

[TouringBubble]

Updated. Thanks!

[stangracer]

The SCCA does not have anything to do with PAX. Rick Ruth sets PAX values at the start of the year and by common consensus the rest of us agree.

As you stated, Rick samples results from regional, divisional and national results to determine the values. They are on a par with stock derivatives since they have similar assumptions about reality. However, since this is a shared delusion the autocross community accepts the concept as does Wall Street.

So basically it doesn't mean anything, except to make the slow feel warm and fuzzy right?

[nicktcr]

So basically it doesn't mean anything, except to make the slow feel warm and fuzzy right?

Well it does mean something actually. It helps take the differences in cars out of the equation, and compare yourself to other drivers, rather than how prepared or unprepared the vehicles are.

[claym]

Well it does mean something actually. It helps take the differences in cars out of the equation, and compare yourself to other drivers, rather than how prepared or unprepared the vehicles are.

Actually, that is not quite true. It compares the potential of a car that is prepped to the limit of the class (and one of the top cars in the class) to other cars prepped to the max in other classes.

Would a Chevy Chevette in original stock form with a great set of all season whitewall tires be competetive with a Mini Cooper with custom valved adjustable shocks, lightweight alloy wheels with brand new Hoosier A6 R compound tires with a cat back exhaust and a competetion alignment have the same performance potential with the same driver (even though they are both in HS)? Kinda like bringing a wet noodle to a gun fight.

Now, a top prepped CSP Miata and a top prepped HS Mini Cooper would theoretically work in PAX with the same level of driver.

When all drivers are top level, the one with the best prepped car for the class usually comes out on top. Think of it as 2 high school football teams (one with more talented, motivated, and well coached players than the other). Which one will usually come out on top?

Another long work day and a tired blabbering dude. It's time to go to bed!

[TouringBubble]

Yeah Clay, that's right on point. The PX values are determined based on vehicles completely prepped for a class. A good example is the "SM" Evos in our region. Not one of them is actually an SM prepped car. An SM prepped Evo would likely be a 2.3l with a big turbo, aggressive cams, full cage and 315+ Hoosiers.

[stangracer]

But PAX only counts in novice, as far as points are concerned right?

[TouringBubble]

PAX counts in PAX classes here locally. We run N and T with PAX results and we occasionally let clubs come in and run in a PAX class among themselves. Other regions run a PAX championship and some run the L (Ladies) class as PAX as well.

[aMaff]

An SM prepped Evo would likely be a 2.3l with a big turbo, aggressive cams, full cage and 315+ Hoosiers.

Unless you needed to ballast up (a lot) to minimum weight, why would you want a full cage in a dedicated, full prep autox car? Their chassis can't be that floppy lol

[TouringBubble]

Good point ... but the chassis is a little flimsy honestly.

[tbone]

[QUOTE=TouringBubble;23060]
Here is an applied example of how PAX times work.

Compare three drivers in stock classes. Driver A is in a Lotus Exige in SS class, Driver B in a Mustang Cobra in FS and Driver C in a Mini Cooper in HS. All drivers manage a flat 60 second run on the course.

Formula - Raw*Pax Modifier=PAX Time

Driver A - 60*0.857=51.420
Driver B - 60*0.827=49.620
Driver C - 60*0.791=47.460

So, Driver C in the Mini would seem to be a much more capable driver than the others even though they ran the same raw times. (It should be noted that Driver C is not #42.)QUOTE]

IMHO, Driver B would be the more capable driver....to turn the same time as a Cooper and an Exige.....in a STOCK Mustang Cobra is fairly impressive. And then to have a 2.2 second PAX differential after making that impressive run is kind of deflating for the Mustang driver.
That seems backwards, in my simple mind.

It could also be argued the more prepped/modified a car is....the easier it is to drive it wrong.
But pay no attention to me.....I come from the RAW is REAL mentality.

[claym]

[QUOTE=tbone;23131]

Here is an applied example of how PAX times work.

Compare three drivers in stock classes. Driver A is in a Lotus Exige in SS class, Driver B in a Mustang Cobra in FS and Driver C in a Mini Cooper in HS. All drivers manage a flat 60 second run on the course.

Formula - Raw*Pax Modifier=PAX Time

Driver A - 60*0.857=51.420
Driver B - 60*0.827=49.620
Driver C - 60*0.791=47.460

So, Driver C in the Mini would seem to be a much more capable driver than the others even though they ran the same raw times. (It should be noted that Driver C is not #42.)QUOTE]

IMHO, Driver B would be the more capable driver....to turn the same time as a Cooper and an Exige.....in a STOCK Mustang Cobra is fairly impressive. And then to have a 2.2 second PAX differential after making that impressive run is kind of deflating for the Mustang driver.
That seems backwards, in my simple mind.

It could also be argued the more prepped/modified a car is....the easier it is to drive it wrong.
But pay no attention to me.....I come from the RAW is REAL mentality.

You are probably used to smaller, tighter courses that would favor smaller cars. Most national events are at larger sites with faster and usually more open courses that negate the smaller and much slower (in a straight line) Mini advantage that you seem to invision. One course (and surface) will tend to me more favorable to some cars, whereas other courses and surfaces may favor a different type of car. I can design two different styles of courses at Verizon, and you will see smaller and more nimble cars faster on one, and high power cars do better on the other. Tightness, speed maintenance, and acceleration zones can alter PAX to some degree. That's why it is not an absolute

[Cholewa]

Also don't forget, that Cobra is on some HUGE Rcomps with light weight wheels, upgraded shock/struts, some beefier swaybars, and a catback.

305 hoosiers will negate any sort of boat notion in a car.

[TouringBubble]

Tbone, PAX considers that the Mini is smaller and more nimble and that the Cobra has a lot more power. Of course there are exceptions, but PAX attempts to calculate that stuff in.

Using the exact same raw time is not realistic, but it's the best way to illustrate the point of how PAX works. In reality the PAX times would be a lot closer to one another rather than the raw times.