Autocross alignment

[hondamaint]

Here is a good thread to fill time during the slow season. What kind of alignment ( if any) are people running on their cars. We have front drive but lets hear from any and everyone to see what people are doing. This information could help us all and also may help someone new that has no idea what toe in or camber is. Also interesting would be how cars that are still daily drivers are set up as opposed to a car that see's limited street use.
Just remember this is not to start ANY argument,it's just to share information. There is always more that 1 way to do something the right way and we can all learn from each other.
I will start.
-Red Odyssey Not a daily driver and tire life is of no concern.

Camber front L-2.10 Degrees R-2.60 Degrees
Toe Total toe
-.64(this is toe out)
L-.32 R-.32
Camber rear L-.05 Degrees R-.09 Degrees
Toe Total toe
-.40 ( this is toe out)
L-.20 R-.20

Tire pressure
Stock tires 40 front 42-44 rear
Low profile tire's 36 front 38 rear
Remember , what works for one car may not work for someone else or their car.
If you want,you can throw in tire pressure's to keep the thread going. I just want to pick everyone's brain to learn and I think it can help others also.

[zukitek]

on my 240SX....i run :

front camber= -2.5-3.0 (mcpherson strut front end loves negative camber ..the more the merrier)
front toe=3/16"-1/8" out total
rear camber= -1.0-1.5
rear toe= 3/16"-1/8" in total
front caster=+6.0

front tire pressure=32 cold (r comp)
rear tire pressure=28psi cold (r comp)

average street tires....36 f 32 rear

[TouringBubble]

For the Evo ...

Front Camber: -2.6º
Rear camber: -1.5º
Toe: 0" (it's a street car)
PSI Front: 36 (hot)
PSI Rear: 35 (hot)

With the stock alignment I used to run 41+ psi to prevent rollover. With these new settings, I run a bit less and get very even wear on the tires. It's a nice balance for a dual purpose AWD car.

[hondamaint]

Cool, so far we have a FRW , RWD and AWD response.

[VroomGrrl]

I'll be watching this discussion with some interest, because I have NO CLUE how my car is set up. My 1988 Porsche 911 is a RWD street car that goes out on track & AX -- and this is all Greek to me. Generally speaking I am of the "adjust the nut behind the wheel first" school of thought when it comes to changing things up on my car, but this strikes me as an area that I might learn to pay attention to and perhaps reap some handling and performance benefits from adjusments to toe & camber?

[87RX7RACER]

For the RX7...(but this is subject to change with the new wheels that are on the car now)

Front camber: -3.0 degrees
Front Toe: 1/8" toe in
Front caster: 8 degrees(caster camber plates shifted as far to the rear of the car as would allow)
Rear camber: -1.5 degrees
Rear Toe: 1/8" toe out
Front sway bar: lower link pin on outer hole-upper link pin on middle hole(have not tried to tighten it up any more than this)

Ride height is set for 5 1/4 inches from the lowest point of the rocker panel to the ground (per ITS rules) I liked it at this height so I stuck with it. Ride height is increased a little in the rear(about 1/4 of an inch)...this was recommended to me by some RX7 people.

Car has never been corner weighted and could probably stand to be done soon. Maybe after new tires for season?

[TouringBubble]

Bumping this for the settings I'm gong to try out ...

Front Camber: -2.6º (pending pyrometer verification ... might add a little more)
Front Toe: 1/16" out
Rear Camber: -1.5º (maxed)
Rear Toe: 0" (re-evaluated after testing new front settings)

Any thoughts on the toe settings? I want better turn in, but acceptable wear properties with the camber that's there. I considered a little more camber, but I want to check the temps to verify that it's needed. I also considered more toe on the front, but I'm not sure how much I'd gain from an extra 1/16" (1/8" each side, 1/4" total) in comparison to the exaggerated wear. Another consideration was toe in on the rear, but I'm fine with the rotation it has and don't think it holds enough benefit currently. If I start swapping ends a ton with the new front settings I might add 1/16" toe in at the rear later.

[claym]

Just remember that the more negative camber you put in the front, the less braking you will have due to the decreased tread patch. You can always mark your 1/16 toe out with paint on the tie rod and increase toe out on one side of the car for events and move it back to the marked setting after the event. I used to do that all the time in the 1st gen ACRs. If car does not rotate well enough, decrease neg camber in rear or add a little toe out in rear (or stiffen shock rebound, stiffen springs, stiffen rear bar, or add pressure to rear tires).


Less effective braking makes those short stop boxes tougher ....

[sheehy jim]

Camber Front:L-1.2
R-1.0
Front Toe:1/16"
Tires and Tire Presuure:20.0 x 8.0-13 R25B Road Race Tires
Front:23 pounds
Rear:23 pounds

[sheehy jim]

Front Springsatsun 510 rear stock springs 600 pounds.
Rear Springs:Customer Designed by my father
Shocks:KONI RED VW Beetle 60-65
Front Swaybar 7/8" Adjustable
Rear:Panhard Rod Adjsutable
Rearend:455 Detroit Locker Limited Slip
Axles:Stock

[c-evoVIII]

Bumping this for the settings I'm gong to try out ...

Front Camber: -2.6º (pending pyrometer verification ... might add a little more)
Front Toe: 1/16" out
Rear Camber: -1.5º (maxed)
Rear Toe: 0" (re-evaluated after testing new front settings)

Any thoughts on the toe settings? I want better turn in, but acceptable wear properties with the camber that's there. I considered a little more camber, but I want to check the temps to verify that it's needed. I also considered more toe on the front, but I'm not sure how much I'd gain from an extra 1/16" (1/8" each side, 1/4" total) in comparison to the exaggerated wear. Another consideration was toe in on the rear, but I'm fine with the rotation it has and don't think it holds enough benefit currently. If I start swapping ends a ton with the new front settings I might add 1/16" toe in at the rear later.

I talked to a couple of guys from National, and they were suggesting that I run about -3 in front and less than -1.5 in the back ( depending on HP, ie more hp maybe more in the rear). on Toe..Toe-in for front, and toe out in the rear. from what they explain you will have more grip on the out side tire during the turn with front Toe-in setting.

but my setting as of last week was
-3.1 in front
-1.3 in rear
0 toe all around
because i do drive it once or twice a week.

As far as the tire pressure goes
255-40-17 Dunlop Starspecs
I'm now using 4-5 more PSI in the rear depending on how much grip I have in the front to help the car rotate and atleast 40psi in front ( with stock sway bar), ( for some reason Starspecs doent like anything lower than 40 psi) but thats just my .02

C

[TouringBubble]

Just remember that the more negative camber you put in the front, the less braking you will have due to the decreased tread patch.

Yeah, I know. But, for me, the grip at the front for corners is a bit more important given all of the weight I'm throwing around. the car is pretty nose heavy. I know the same applies to braking, but I don't have much issue with lock up currently.

Thanks for the input C. I might add a little more camber up front then and leave the toe at 0.

[dpeele95]

One thing i have been running through my brain is more toe-in in the front. the more i think about it and look at what the car is doing it makes sense to me, so let me know what you think.

I would run more toe-in in the front to theoretically improve turn in a lot. My logic is that when you are toed out in the front you have to make the load bearing wheel turn more, because it is already pointed away from the direction you want to go due to the toe-out. What i am thinking with toe-in is you don't have to turn the load bearing wheel near as far to make the car begin to turn.Thus allowing for quicker reaction on turn in. Maybe this is wrong, I have tried it a couple times and it seems to work, but let me know what you think.

[TouringBubble]

You toe out the front for turn in due to the geometry BEFORE the suspension is weighted to the outside. One you're in the corner, toe out up front is actually counter-productive just as you've said.

Think of the transition in a chicane instead for a better explanation. You're attempting to change direction with the suspension weighted for the previous maneuver. When you begin to turn the opposite direction, the toe'd out wheel is now weighted AND facing more in the correct direction of the coming turn, which gives faster response.

That's why it works.

[kilgojr]

You toe out the front for turn in due to the geometry BEFORE the suspension is weighted to the outside. One you're in the corner, toe out up front is actually counter-productive just as you've said.

Think of the transition in a chicane instead for a better explanation. You're attempting to change direction with the suspension weighted for the previous maneuver. When you begin to turn the opposite direction, the toe'd out wheel is now weighted AND facing more in the correct direction of the coming turn, which gives faster response.

That's why it works.

Take a look at this for some explanations as well......

http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/align.html