Santa Run PDX and Driving School at TGPR 12/7

[fwman1]

You know it Brett. I'm pulling out all the stops and calling in all favors...Hopefully this will happen. I had a blast last time up. To get some real instruction too is just icing on the cake.

[chuck schultz]

I thought I answered this, yesterday, but it got lost in the bit bucket, somehow.

Can I run my miata with just the hard top (no roll bar)?

10.1. PDX (LEVEL 1)
At PDX (Level 1) events, any car that is street legal will NOT require a roll bar/roll cage, except for Convertibles and Targa* top
automobiles. These cars must have either a roll bar meeting the requirements of section 10 of the TTR, a factory roll bar/roll over
protection, or a factory hard top using the factory mounting hardware and mounting points. Owners of cars equipped with factory roll
bars/roll over protection must present documentation stating that the device is a roll bar or roll over protection at the time of vehicle tech
inspection (a factory issued Owner’s or Shop Manual will fulfill this requirement.) Targa* top (and T-top) automobiles may forgo the roll
bar requirement under the condition that the Targa bar meets the height requirements set forth in 10.1.1.B. For the purposes of this
determination only, street legal will be defined as a car which meets local requirements for inspection (if applicable) and the car in
question must possess CURRENT, VALID registration. If this street legal requirement is not met, then the roll bar requirement as stated
in this section shall apply.
*Targa top, targa for short, is a semi-convertible car body style with a removable roof section and a full width fixed B-pillar and roof
section. The rear window can be fixed or removable.

[tonyTIGERX8]

Thanks Chuck. I've read the PDX rules before; just wanted to verify.

[rodhx]

I *think* you'll be okay for the TGPR PDX Tony, but be aware that the host track rules can often be more restrictive and require a rollbar. Just something to keep an eye on until you settle on a bar.

[EvoLady]

I can help if needed until mid afternoon, my company Christmas party is that evening. So is Chaisit's.

[tonyTIGERX8]

Thanks Chuck. I've read the PDX rules before; just wanted to verify.

I *think* you'll be okay for the TGPR PDX Tony, but be aware that the host track rules can often be more restrictive and require a rollbar. Just something to keep an eye on until you settle on a bar.

Thanks Rod. That's kind of why I wanted to verify it. I don't think I'll have my roll bar in by then (maybe) and I didn't want to drive down there and find out I can't run. I want to get some seat time in the miata since it will soon be my TT car.

[rodhx]

I loved my Miata for the years I had it but getting a convertible on track is like walking in a minefield. Rules change by track and by sanctioning body, so you really have to watch what you're doing.

The good news is you already have a hardtop and are shopping for a rollbar. That combination should make you golden with just about anybody. I never had an issue with my bar & hardtop combo, and to be honest have never felt a burning desire to try to run on track top down anyway.

[tonyTIGERX8]

Thanks Rod. I always choose hard paths ... miata is mine for now... not ready for an M yet. Hard top for PDX and roll bar for TT. Short term goals.

[fireball]

worker

ill be happy to work this event,,,,lemme know....ted

[chuck schultz]

Hard top for PDX and roll bar for TT.

A roll bar's cheaper, and covers both.

[rodhx]

A roll bar's cheaper, and covers both.

Not necessarily. A roll bar typically only covers both if you can pass some version of the "broomstick" test, which many drivers cannot in a Miata with stock seats. Also, depending on the group and/or track, if you show up with just a rollbar you may be required to have a harness and arm restraints...even at a PDX-type event.

My comment was simply if you have both rollbar and hardtop then you won't have to worry about all that other stuff when you want to do a PDX/DE in a Miata.

[fwman1]

Good info. My question is this. I have a hard time believing that one of our factory Miata hard tops would be of much use in a roll over. They weigh very little, and while the shape is right, it just doesn't seem like they could possibly support the weight of the car. Ever seen a hardtop only roll over result? I say that after installing my roll bar because I was not necessarily rule driven, but was looking to make the car safer for recreational track use.

[rodhx]

You are absolutely correct Roger...the miata hardtop is of very little use in a rollover. The only thing it really does is get you past the broomstick rule once you have your rollbar. In the case of a rollover it mainly serves to keep your arms in the car vs. an open top.

Heck...the roof of my BMW is of very little use in a significant rollover

[tonyTIGERX8]

A roll bar's cheaper, and covers both.

Already have a hard top, don't have a rollbar yet (saving my pennies ... all this safety gear aint cheap!); hope to have the minimum ready by spring TT school.

[farrout]

Casey

The revised 2013 Time Trial Rules for PDX, etc are in effect. (Chuck's 10.1 quote is from the old TTR). I am attaching the new TTR for you. You will notice that there are a lot of changes that make it easier for the driver to understand what is going on.

THe PDX sanction request will get sent to me by SCCA before they grant you a sanction. It would be easier if you can send me the PDX Supps in advance so we can work out any potential glitches. There is no separate sanction for a Driving School. By definition, a PDX is a driving school. You will need a few SCCA certified people (Chief Steward, Driving Instructor, Safety Steward, etc) to get your Sanction approved. If some people need certification, let me know and I can help you.

My email address is farrout@knology.net I will be back in town after Nov 20th.