Barber News et al

[nicktcr]

To me if you have 60 time trialers who are breaking even and 60 road racers that are losing money on their events the answer is to join up and have 120 drivers at one event that might actually be beneficial to both.

Yeah that really should be the case.

So, if it doesn't seem to be an issue of people registering, but more an issue of people not showing up, seems a pretty simple solution. Change the refund policy. It seems we simply cannot afford to give full refunds. Either substantial non-refundable deposits, or only offer half refunds or something. Should really help to not lose so much cash.

[JohnW8]

I'm not sure if this is anything new, as I haven't been part of this long, so this may sound super dumb.
The economy hasn't been pretty and on a lot of other forums, one of the first things that people tend to get rid of is their "racecar" so they can continue to have a home, groceries and provide for the family. The race hobby falls last on importance as it should. I've seen multiple people selling their cars because of lost jobs within the past year or so. I'm sure that isn't the root problem, but that is a non-modifiable risk factor that is relevant. Just a thought.

Exactly Heath. The economy has changed for the worse over time and decisions have to be made. Unfortunately the racecar gets shelved. We have a shrinking pool of drivers but we have regions that put on races just like they always have and wonder where the drivers are.
The drivers that are still racing then have a plethora of races to attend but those region get hit hard in the bank account because the entry numbers are low. But out of fear of losing a race forever they are unwilling to adjust the schedule to have fewer races and unwilling to adjust the raceday schedule to allow other forms of club racing (TT & PDX) to join them on track.

To me if you have 60 time trialers who are breaking even and 60 road racers that are losing money on their events the answer is to join up and have 120 drivers at one event that might actually be beneficial to both.

[HPEVOX]

I'm not sure if this is anything new, as I haven't been part of this long, so this may sound super dumb.
The economy hasn't been pretty and on a lot of other forums, one of the first things that people tend to get rid of is their "racecar" so they can continue to have a home, groceries and provide for the family. The race hobby falls last on importance as it should. I've seen multiple people selling their cars because of lost jobs within the past year or so. I'm sure that isn't the root problem, but that is a non-modifiable risk factor that is relevant. Just a thought.

[e30Racer]

I don't necessarily think that people not registering is the issue. It's people registering and then not showing up. I think that having only a partial refund would help us. I also don't think that having a mandatory pre-registration is needed. Again, it's not a matter of people registering, it's people not showing up. Plus, I don't think many racers show up not having already registered. If we do have a few show up who havent registered, I would hate to turn them away. That's money we are turning away.

[kilgojr]

Nick, if you think the politics of getting pre-reg done, refunds, no refunds, etc is ridiculous....then you don't even want to know what goes into setting the dates for the SEDiv calendar. Certain groups have dates that are theirs, but no tracks, or tracks but no dates, blah blah blah.

[bimmertech]

I've thought this for a while and I'm going to go ahead and say it. We need to go ahead and start a campaign to have the runoffs held at Barber. The racing would be excellent, and logistically Barber is in a much better area.

[nicktcr]

I think nick is suggesting...Or maybe 2 weeks prior to the event all registered and paid entrants can no longer get a refund, so you've got to pull out before X days prior to get any money back.

I really think at least this much should be the case. You MUST pre-register at least a deposit that is non-refundable, AND, you can only get entry refunded (any amount partial or whole) up to the week before (that way if your race car gets broken you can cancel last minute), and after that any fees paid are guaranteed to the organizers.

Think about it; those very minimal (and I think still very reasonable) changes would help ensure at least a decent chunk of change to the organizers, while still being as fair as possible to the drivers who participate in an unpredictable hobby.

[nicktcr]

+1. Another good idea NickyV! Are you running for RE or something?

HA

No I don't believe I am...but I'm happy to offer random suggestions. This just seems like a simple problem that people are vastly over complicating. It seems like we have most of the information we need:

-too many races = less drivers per race due to budget constraints
-Labor Day race end of season and budgets are mostly gone + bad weather = few have the cash, and even more don't want to spend it on chance of bad weather
-too many classes costing too much on trophies and extra crap
-old people that run SCCA need to get out of there so that people with better ideas can keep this club growing and strong (I may or may not have added that last one in )

I really am in favor of the whole non-refundable deposit thing. You must at least pony up a little cash to say "Yes, I want to race on that weekend, please hold a spot for me."

From the racer standpoint I can totally understand not wanting to have half a grand in entry tied up only to have the car get wrecked because some other turd didn't know what he was doing and just be out the entry...but from a logistics standpoint, it's really crappy to have to basically completely front the cash for an ENTIRE event (especially one that costs so much like at Barber) purely on faith that enough of it's members will actually participate to at the very least recoup the initial investment.

Is there any way we could have an event at Barber earlier in the season where it would be more desirable for points to the competitors? There isn't really a good time of year for weather in this part of the country. If it's warm enough to be outside, it's warm enough for tornadoes n such. I know Labor Day is the "traditional" date, but sometimes it's traditions that keep us stuck in a rut, and things do need to change from time to time

I dunno, now I'm just thinking out loud and hoping someone will attempt to comprehend what I'm saying. Sorry if I rambled and didn't get my point across...I tend to do that a lot.

[JohnW8]

Maybe pre-registration should be required. You MUST register in advance, but don't have to pay in full at any specific time, but must have at least a $100 non-refundable deposit to at least show the registrars that you are committed and have full intentions to be there unless something drastic changes...

+1. Another good idea NickyV! Are you running for RE or something?

[nicktcr]

Maybe pre-registration should be required. You MUST register in advance, but don't have to pay in full at any specific time, but must have at least a $100 non-refundable deposit to at least show the registrars that you are committed and have full intentions to be there unless something drastic changes...

[chuck schultz]

how would having no pre-registration cause people to stand in heat for 6-8 hours?

This happened . . . using a tent, because the credential building wasn't complete, yet.

Remember that, with a Club Race, you're not just registering a car and driver. You must explain all the price options (one race, two races, or three, extra fees if your car was built by SCCA Enterprises) record/register who that driver's crew and guests are (who may not be on site, at the time, which means they have to sign the waiver later,) assign their permanent SEDiv number (if available) or another available number, handle checks or cash, make pictures for membership cards, and more that I've probably forgotten.

BTW, the last I knew (which was a few years ago,) the folks doing online registration don't allow pre-registration before the sanction number is assigned, and no more than a month ahead of time.

[e30Racer]

So lets take this past year as an example. We had ~180 drivers sign up online and pay. We only had ~130 drivers show up and race Saturday and Sunday. So if we had an early registration price break, or non-refundable registration, or whatever, how would that have affected the race this year? Would it have caused more drivers to show up and risk the weather if that's what they were worried about? I don't really know what the answer is, nor why 50 people signed up but didn't show. I wish we knew the answers and could come up with a better game plan based on better facts, but alas there is always a bit of guessing when trying to plan one of these big events.

[Cholewa]

I think nick is suggesting that say, 4 months before the event, you can pay $300 non-refundable for the weekend. Then 2 months prior to the event the price goes up to $400 and is partially refundable (think of a restocking fee - maybe you get back half). 1 month before the event there's a late registration fee of $50 so the total is $450 and again is partially refundable. Then 2 weeks before the event the price goes up to $500 and is non-refundable. Or maybe 2 weeks prior to the event all registered and paid entrants can no longer get a refund, so you've got to pull out before X days prior to get any money back.

So you reward the eager with a cheaper weekend, and punish those who commit and then don't even show up and cause the hosting regions to lose tens of thousands of dollars.

[kilgojr]

SCCA's refund policy is great for the competitor! But must be a nightmare for the renter/organizer! I'm not aware of any other group that does this bike or car.

Lets see, we lost $20,000 on the 2012 Labor Day race. There are many things about the event that has been a nightmare.

[e30Racer]

I don't think anyone is saying to not have pre-registration. Everyone is saying that if you pre-register and pay before hand, then you don't get a full refund. Also, how would having no pre-registration cause people to stand in heat for 6-8 hours? I'm confused!?!?