Barber News et al

[JohnW8]

I was responding to what the racers would do and no, the majority of the racers, in my opinion, would not travel for a track day that would cost more than a race weekend and not have any points/positions/places/racing. That's not being a whiner that's just a bad use of racing funds. As far as racers "expecting the club to bear the expense", WTF are you talking about? I pay an entry fee to race at Barber. If the region continues to spend money on roast beast, trophies and Stella Artrois, don't blame that on the racers. That's the regions choice. The slow down in racing has been trending downward for a few years and we haven't adjusted quickly enough.

Even without the trophies and food the track will cost 40-50k that the club doesn't have and hoping to find 100 people minimum to come out and pay $400-$500 per person is a bit rough to take. ESPECIALLY for a racer who has a limited budget and spends their cash on events where they can race like minded people. A trackday wouldn't be worth the tow.

We can barely get 15 people to come out to TGPR for a $100 pdx.

This is a simple volume problem, there are more races in the division than we have racers for them to support.

[e30Racer]

The racers won't travel for just a track day which is what Casey is proposing.

I agree W8. The few racers I have talked to said at the beginning of the season, they look at their finances and say, "Ok,I should have X dollars to spend on racing this year". For this example, we'll say $10,000 for the whole year. Each race weekend will cost $2000 so I can go to 5 races assuming nothing major happens like a big wreck, or blown engine, etc. So of the 18 race weekends, I can go to 5. Well, Road Atlanta is close so I'll say 2 races there. And Roebling isn't terrible so 1 or 2 there. VIR is just too far. CMP is a pretty good haul. Barber's close, but...what?....no race just a PDX this year? Well then CMP it is.

I think that if racers had a choice between racing or doing a PDX, they'd choose racing. Heck, I think if racers had a choice between a PDX and saving the money, they'd choose saving the money. But then again, I'm not a club racer so this is all conjecture.

Unfortunately, we have a lot of GREAT ideas, but no real way of knowing what the best plan of action is. And actually, if ATL doesn't help with cash, there is no way we can hold any sort of event out at Barber. We don't have the cash to front the rental for the track period. So no matter what, we need more cookies in the cookie jar at the price of having more hands in the cookie jar as well.

I honestly think our only hope is to get Barber/Zoom to give us a break on the rental. Did any ideas come from PBOC and their "charity" event? Any word on how much it cost them? Cholewa? Vince?

[Cholewa]

I also believe we can support this event on our own without any other region which relieves more headache.

Yes, there are some racers who will not show, but I'm not really interested in catering to whiners who are only interested in beer and trophies and expect the club to bear the expense. I'm interested in growing the club during a soft economy which means making some sacrifices. I think there are people eager for track time who may one day join the ranks of racers and revive club racing.

We don't have the bank account to put on an event at BMP without someone else helping. 40k up front before the race starts is no joke, and we don't have that kind of cash, and definitely can't take the risk if the event is a flop.

[bimmertech]

Many will travel for seat time at Barber. And they won't have to splurge for an extra set of race rubber since it's not competition. As a matter of fact, many of the minor set-backs that would discourage one from racing become non-issues at a PDX. I also believe we can support this event on our own without any other region which relieves more headache.

Yes, there are some racers who will not show, but I'm not really interested in catering to whiners who are only interested in beer and trophies and expect the club to bear the expense. I'm interested in growing the club during a soft economy which means making some sacrifices. I think there are people eager for track time who may one day join the ranks of racers and revive club racing.

[JohnW8]

We could even put out an ad in the paper or on the radio and get non members to come out and play, since they wouldn't need to be licensed and could just fill out a weekend membership form.


And not having to setup T&S would be amazing, as with tech being not nearly as important (post race weigh and all that jazz). The question is, would the prepped racers pitch a fit if they weren't getting timed? And if it wasn't for points or anything towards their license, they would still need to get X events to maintain, which would again dilute the pool.

The racers won't travel for just a track day which is what Casey is proposing.

[Cholewa]

Yep. Very similar to those clubs, and all of the others that make it work.
There is no reason for us to be sending our members to other clubs when we have dibs on one of the best weekends of the year.

I think SCCA actually has more to offer than those other clubs and it could easily be used as a marketing event to showcase our club.

We could even put out an ad in the paper or on the radio and get non members to come out and play, since they wouldn't need to be licensed and could just fill out a weekend membership form.


And not having to setup T&S would be amazing, as with tech being not nearly as important (post race weigh and all that jazz). The question is, would the prepped racers pitch a fit if they weren't getting timed? And if it wasn't for points or anything towards their license, they would still need to get X events to maintain, which would again dilute the pool.

[bimmertech]

Charge the same? Open the track friday night for people with rigs, and have sat/sun "racing", at $450 an entry?

That's actually not a bad idea, but I think we'd still have trouble getting people to show up that late in the season, and at that price, and convincing ATL to help out with the cost for a PDX that's going to cost 50k might be a stretch.

Interesting idea though. Run it similar to the way PBOC or BMWCCA does, with it being a race, but without time. Could work, but we'd still need corner workers, which we have been having more and more trouble finding lately.

Yep. Very similar to those clubs, and all of the others that make it work.
There is no reason for us to be sending our members to other clubs when we have dibs on one of the best weekends of the year.

I think SCCA actually has more to offer than those other clubs and it could easily be used as a marketing event to showcase our club.

[Cholewa]

Agreed...but, was talking about income to Barber, not our loss. CB

I honestly don't think they care whether or not SCCA comes for a weekend or not. And it's been made somewhat obvious by their unwillingness to work with us on pricing.

[nicktcr]

Agreed...but, was talking about income to Barber, not our loss. CB

Ah yes...but they're likely still to be stubborn. I have a feeling they won't budge on rental rates, but it's certainly worth a shot to try to work something out with them.

[Cholewa]

In light of all of the valid points being made I have an idea.

What if we were to keep ourLabor Day date with Barber next year and NOT have a race?
Make the event a PDX only. Of course all racers would be welcome and the PDX could be billed as a shake-down before the Runoffs.

This format would greatly reduce the amount of licensed workers needed to hold a race weekend as well as expanding the pool of eligible cars and drivers. We could still have an open wheel run group, but the run groups would be decided more by driver experience than car class. Having a T2 car on course with a street car at Barber really isn't a big deal if no one is keeping time.

By keeping the date active in this format we are able to keep tabs on the amount of drivers who ARE interested in racing so we can make an informed decision on when it is feasible to host a race in the future as well as maintaining the relationship with Barber.

We could possibly even hold an auto-x test n tune in the paddock at the same time to make the event more profitable.

Charge the same? Open the track friday night for people with rigs, and have sat/sun "racing", at $450 an entry?

That's actually not a bad idea, but I think we'd still have trouble getting people to show up that late in the season, and at that price, and convincing ATL to help out with the cost for a PDX that's going to cost 50k might be a stretch.

Interesting idea though. Run it similar to the way PBOC or BMWCCA does, with it being a race, but without time. Could work, but we'd still need corner workers, which we have been having more and more trouble finding lately.

[Chuck Baader]

Agreed...but, was talking about income to Barber, not our loss. CB

[nicktcr]

It seems to me that some revenue would be preferable to letting the track sit. My .02. CB

Letting the track sit would be preferable to losing $20,000...

[Chuck Baader]

OK, y'all..you want to know what a racer thinks?? I have worked on both sides of the fence, registration and racing (at the same time). As a registrar, you want as many entries as possible to pre-enter. That way, the work can be done and the lines at registration are short=racers happy. As a racer, you pre-enter to miss late fees so it is convenient to cancel or no show if that is what is necessary.

The major problem is trying to estimate the number of entrants vs. the track fees. Consider this: track cost 40k for the weekend. At 400 each, you must have 100 entries to break even. Now add dinner (expected, and grossly overpriced), beer and wine (expected but not included last race), and other extras and pick a number (SWAG) of entrants that will actually show and turn a wheel. Other considerations include weather (some people do not race in the rain) but for the past couple of years we have had rain. Now, considering the above, you are very close to the 500 entry level, and that again will prevent some from attending.

The only out I see is to sit down with George and/or track management and discuss the fee structure. It seems to me that some revenue would be preferable to letting the track sit. My .02. CB

[bimmertech]

In light of all of the valid points being made I have an idea.

What if we were to keep ourLabor Day date with Barber next year and NOT have a race?
Make the event a PDX only. Of course all racers would be welcome and the PDX could be billed as a shake-down before the Runoffs.

This format would greatly reduce the amount of licensed workers needed to hold a race weekend as well as expanding the pool of eligible cars and drivers. We could still have an open wheel run group, but the run groups would be decided more by driver experience than car class. Having a T2 car on course with a street car at Barber really isn't a big deal if no one is keeping time.

By keeping the date active in this format we are able to keep tabs on the amount of drivers who ARE interested in racing so we can make an informed decision on when it is feasible to host a race in the future as well as maintaining the relationship with Barber.

We could possibly even hold an auto-x test n tune in the paddock at the same time to make the event more profitable.

[Cholewa]

I think many of the racers (this coming from a non-racer - pure conjecture) have become accustomed to a certain level of non-urgency in terms of signing up/paying for races, and withdrawing without penalty. And if you've ever done even the slightest bit of work at a race, you know that there are the kind racers who actually give a damn about everyone helping to make the event run, and the ones who just had their super sweet 16 and complained because the color of their new car was wrong.

I think people are afraid of hurting racers feelings, since those guys are in fact the source of money for the races, and if you turn enough of them off (or at least fear that you will) you won't do what's necessary.


I don't know what the solution is, but I think we all know what the problems are. It would be nice to get a few more racers to throw in their thoughts so we could get a better view of their side of the equation, but trying to get a questionaire out in scca land is like herding cats.