Just makin sure

[J2870]

At the last event we had a Toyota corolla with a supra motor, which ran in sm. This got me thinking, if motors from the same manufacturer are allowed in smf, does that mean that my 2002 mitsubishi 3.0L v6 can be replaced with a 3.8L from a 2008?

[Michael Elsea]

We were not sure if the rules changed or not which I still haven't found that out yet. The engine swap in the corolla was out of the same model year supra also. I'll try to find something in the rule book

[kilgojr]

Per 2013 Solo rules: (for Street Modified)
page 108, Allowed Modifications, 16.1 Section D

D. Drivetrain and related components (induction, ignition, fuel systems,
etc.) are unrestricted except for the following limitations:
1. Engine block must be a production unit manufactured and badged
the same as the original standard or optional engine for that model.
Badges that exist as marketing aliases for the manufacturer
will be recognized as equivalents. Swaps involving makes related
only at a corporate level are not recognized as equivalents. Models
produced as a joint venture between manufacturers may utilize
any engine from any partner in the joint venture, provided that
an engine from the desired manufacturer was a factory option in
that particular model (e.g., Eagle Talon, available originally with
either a Mitsubishi or Chrysler engine, may use any motor from
Chrysler or Mitsubishi). This allows engine blocks manufactured
as production units for sale in other countries such as Japan or
Germany.

[kilgojr]

To further go into this:

page 67 of 2013 Solo Rules, Section 12 Automobile Definitions,

12.3 MODEL
A group of cars of a given make which have virtually identical bodies
and chassis but are readily distinguished from other models of the
same make by virtue of a major difference in body appearance and/
or chassis design. The names by which the manufacturer designates
these groups have no bearing on this definition even though two (2)
groups may be designated identically.

[J2870]

I think I need a lawyer. Im still trying to understand if this is applying to years, and the body difference is pretty noticeable, however the chassis should be the same. This is what I notice : available originally with either a Mitsubishi or Chrysler engine, may use any motor from Chrysler or Mitsubishi

MITSUB~1.jpg

Mitsubishi-Eclipse_GT_2009_800x600_wallpaper_02.jpg

[kilgojr]

So, what does that mean.....?
I am going to ONLY cover engines here, as the suspension, etc are a further conversation.

In my mind (I am more familiar with BMW models than most anything else), I could take a 1989 3 series (an e30 chassis code) which has three models. The models are all identical in suspension interior and size. The engines available are the 1.8L 4 cylinder (318i), the 2.5L 6 cylinder (325i), and the 2.5L 4 cylinder (M3). I could take any one of these motors and put it in any e30 chassis car (whether it started life as an M3, 318, or 325) and then I have the option of forced induction, any fuel system, and any ignition system.
I could NOT take a motor from the later e36 chassis (the 1993 to 1999 year models) and put it into an e30 chassis, because they are different models of car, even though it is still a 3 series.

In other terms, I could not take the LT4 Corvette motor from the C4 chassis in the mid 90's and put it in a Camaro that had an LT1, even though it is basically the same motor, just a different intake and cam. I could however, put the cam and intake from Edelbrock (that are an upgrade to the LT4) on my LT1 v8 motor, and then turbo or supercharge it, and that is perfectly legal.

[kilgojr]

According to my quick research, the 2000-2005 models of the Eclipse are based on the Chrysler ST-22 platform. The 2006-2011 models are based on the Mitsubishi PS platform. That would lead me to believe that NO, you could not exchange those motors and be eligible for Street Modified FWD.

[kilgojr]

As for the Corolla, the Supra and AE86 Corolla chassis are different. So even though the 1JZ from the Supra is the same model year as the Corolla, it came from a different chassis, therefore, it is not eligible for SM.

Probably the easiest class to fit this car in is XP. That would give you the most competitors. The other option is some type of Modified class, but frankly, that gets into a bunch of other options that I would have to know more about the car.

When it comes down to it, it is the responsibility of the owner to class himself. If no one complains, then you run in that class.

[rodhx]

The Corolla was classed after being given the guidance of essentially "SM allows any motor from the same manufacturer as your car". I did not provide said guidance, am not a SM expert, nor did I sleep in a holiday inn express last night, but I think that guidance was correct after reading the rule John quoted.

Note that 16.1 section D says the replacement engine must be BADGED the same as the standard or optional engine as the car in question. It does not say you can only use a motor from the same model, nor does it say anything about the same chassis code, year, or anything else. Their parenthetical example even goes on to say the Talon could use ANY Chrysler or Mitsu motor due to it being offered with either.

Based only on my reading of what is posted, I think the Corolla was classed correctly (as far as motor is concerned anyway...don't know anything else about the car), Jeremiah's proposed swap would be legal, and so would be the Camaro with the Corvette motor example.

NOTE: I am just going off what was posted here. I'd talk to someone more familiar with the SM rules before doing anything.

So for the e30, you could use any ol'bimmer motor you want John.

[kilgojr]

So there you go. Don't listen to anything that I said, I am the "promoter" not the "rules enforcer". That is what I get for trying to read the rule-set of our sport.

[rodhx]

Don't listen to anything that I said,....

Me either...

[e30Racer]

I agree with what Rod said. I was under the impression that SM allowed for engine swaps within the manufacturer, and XP allowed for engine swaps between manufacturers. So a Toyota could swap in a Supra motor and run SM. Or a Toyota could swap in a Chevy V8 and run XP. And after reading the rules about engines John posted, I would say that is the correct interpretation.

The word that causes the ambiguity (to me at least) is what is meant by "badged"? Does "manufactured and badged" simply mean Toyota? Or does "manufactured and badged" mean Toyota, but also include more precise naming like Toyota 1JZ vs Toyota 2JZ. Reading further into the rule, the use of the word "badging" makes me think that they simply mean the manufacturers name. Toyota, Honda, Chevrolet, etc. The second sentence..."Badges that exist as marketing aliases for the manufacturer will be recognized as equivalents.".....indicates that Toyota is the same as Lexus, and Acura is the same as Honda.

So Jeremiah, I think that you could put in the newer engine and be SMF eligible.

[c-evoVIII]

As far as I know, any chassis/engine combination AS LONG AS they are from the same manufacturor is allowed in SM(F). that does not included any and all suspension mods or chassis bracing which will be in different section all together. C

[jledford]

If any Mitsu engine is good throw a 6G72TT in it and call it a day

If my S52 ever bites the dust I plan on putting an S54 in my E36 and running SM

[kilgojr]

If any Mitsu engine is good throw a 6G72TT in it and call it a day

If my S52 ever bites the dust I plan on putting an S54 in my E36 and running SM

Or you could get a V8 out of a 2002 - 2005 Range Rover. After all, it is really a BMW M62 v8, with a Range Rover badge on it. Or is that wrong?