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  • Clutch fan vs. E-fan

    After some eventfull whoopsies at the volvo meet this weekend, the topic of proper cooling has come into play pretty big, and it's got me thinking.

    Right now i've got some little electric fan on my radiator, that covers maybe 1/2 of the surface area on the thing. I've got a clutch fan and a shroud from another volvo that I could swap over to, which would give me directional air pulling from the entire radiator, instead of just the part where the fan is.

    Any of you old farts that have ran into cooling issues ever have any epiphanies when it came to electronic fans vs. belt driven clutch fans?

    My basic problems with cooling are as follows:
    It does not cool down quickly while idling/sitting still - finish a romp through the test track and stop a stop light, and watch the temp gauge stay high.
    It doesn't cool down while driving on the interstate at sustained speeds, but does driving around town with various speeds - so on the interstate, I can just watch it go up and up and up to a certain point (usually it stops) and it wont go back down. But when I get off the highway, it starts to drop back down to something slightly more reasonable yet still too high.

    I've put in a lower temp thermostat (~175*) in hopes that it would help, but it hasn't. I'm getting coolant temps from the block and not the head (so cast iron vs. aluminum might throw it off a bit) and the position of the sensor is near the downpipe/under the exhaust manifold - so I'm somewhat curious if there is some heatsoak in the block and my coolant isn't actually getting hotter.

    I got some exhaust wrap for the downpipe just in case this was actually causing issues.


    At the last autocross the volvo was at, I got a rerun at the very end, and when I finished, my temp gauge was sitting at 220 and it was not cooling even with the fan blowing on max, with the heat on, etc. Typically, it will sit between around 195-200, and having blown headgaskets and have water pumps fail in the past, coolant temp scares me, so I really don't like to see it go past 210, or even 200.

    Anyway, if you've got some experience with both situations, chime in. I think I'll go get that fan and shroud soon just to test it out, but I wanted to hear what others thought.

    Also, the engine bay has a belly pan, and there's an air pickup that directs air from the bumper to the intercooler/radiator. And the radiator is a 3 row and it sits immediately behind the intercooler (that doesn't do a very good job of cooling anything).
    M. Cholewa

    Because they heard I liked my name, so they put my name as my name so I could have my name in my name... all the time.

  • #2
    Turbulence from the intercooler preventing a good flow of air through the radiator at highway speeds?

    Block corroded and not flowing coolant efficiently through the block?

    Radiator clogged?

    Needs more fan?

    Turbo is too awesome to keep cool?
    John W8
    CSP 10 Yellow Miata

    Comment


    • #3
      Flow behind the core is just as important as flow in front. Might not be the issue, but something to consider.

      Most people are fine with electric fans. there are several things to consider. Definitely everything John said ... plus ...

      1: CFM of the fan you have? How is it controlled? What about a push and a pull fan together to cover more surface?

      2: The thermostat only controls when coolant flows to the radiator, not how hot it gets. See #1.

      3: Air in the system?

      4: Old coolant, or too much coolant in the mix? Water cools better than coolant, which is mainly an anti-corrosive and anti-freeze additive.

      5: Where is the temp gauge sender? Could it be skewed or off in some way? Basically, is it REALLY that hot? (Probably is.) (Now I see that you answered this already)

      Just to test it out, you should probably drain the system and inspect the core to make sure it's not got a lot of corrosion. You couldn't see a restriction most likely, but inspecting the fins right at the outlet could give you an idea of the overall health of it. Flush it well afterward.

      If it's fine, try to run straight water in it, or just a little coolant ... like 10%. See if that helps.
      Matt W.
      18 SM - Lancer Evolution MR
      15 MR - Volkswagen Beetle
      Sponsors: Satellite Racing - Defined Performance

      Comment


      • #4
        The radiator has maybe 250 miles on it. It's definitely not corroded or blocked.

        And after draining coolant from the block, I didn't see any signs of bad build up near any of the ports when I stuck my finger in to feel around.

        I do need to take the intercooler out and give it a cleaning, although it doesn't look like it's blocked with leaves and junk.


        I don't know how much the fan flows, but when it kicks on full speed it's churning, and I typically see a decrease in my voltage from it.


        I'm really just wondering if there is any reason to do a switch from a mechanical fan to an electric one, other than making it easier to work on, and looking cleaner.
        M. Cholewa

        Because they heard I liked my name, so they put my name as my name so I could have my name in my name... all the time.

        Comment


        • #5
          Did you make sure the heater core was filled after you did all the radiator work? Get it warmed up and open the heater to get it hot and listen for bubbles gurgling through. Might be a bubble like Matt said.
          John W8
          CSP 10 Yellow Miata

          Comment


          • #6
            What temp thermostat was in it before? Maybe at cruise the water is moving through the system too fast to cool. I have heard of this happening but have never experienced it myself. A 175 is going to stay open all the time once it warms up.
            Darryl E.
            Blue Miata with ricer stickers.
            Wizzer Motorsports

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by JohnW8 View Post
              Did you make sure the heater core was filled after you did all the radiator work? Get it warmed up and open the heater to get it hot and listen for bubbles gurgling through. Might be a bubble like Matt said.
              I ran it with the reservoir cap off for about 5 minutes with the "heater" on full blast to attempt to get any air bubbles out.

              The old thermostat was a 190* and I had the same issue, I figured a colder thermostat would help.
              M. Cholewa

              Because they heard I liked my name, so they put my name as my name so I could have my name in my name... all the time.

              Comment


              • #8
                The reason you go to an electric fan is to get rid of the parasitic loss from turning the mechanical fan.
                Matt W.
                18 SM - Lancer Evolution MR
                15 MR - Volkswagen Beetle
                Sponsors: Satellite Racing - Defined Performance

                Comment


                • #9
                  BMW's need to be sitting with the nose up while bleeding the cooling system. Do Volvos?
                  John W8
                  CSP 10 Yellow Miata

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I believe Volvos need meatballs and a blonde near the hood of the car to properly bleed.

                    BMW's generally just hold their nose up at everyone, so its typical.
                    John Kilgore...if winning was easy, losers would do it.
                    Team9Racing BMW 325i, Old Faithful (with a little evil)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      John, that is the standard practice for any car. Make sure the radiator cap is the highest point in the system so all bubbles work themselves to that point.
                      Matt W.
                      18 SM - Lancer Evolution MR
                      15 MR - Volkswagen Beetle
                      Sponsors: Satellite Racing - Defined Performance

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by TouringBubble View Post
                        John, that is the standard practice for any car. Make sure the radiator cap is the highest point in the system so all bubbles work themselves to that point.
                        The system was designed with the cap as the highest point on level ground.
                        M. Cholewa

                        Because they heard I liked my name, so they put my name as my name so I could have my name in my name... all the time.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Do you have a good shroud on your electric fan? Sounds like either your fan isn't large enough and/or a shroud problem. Is your fan wired into a temp switch?
                          Rusty Spray
                          '91 Camaro RS -- Sold

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by spray004 View Post
                            Do you have a good shroud on your electric fan? Sounds like either your fan isn't large enough and/or a shroud problem. Is your fan wired into a temp switch?
                            The fan is wired through the EMS so that when it detects coolant temps over a certain temp, it kicks on. The fan is small compared to the radiator, and isn't shrouded like a typical clutch fan would be. This really has no shroud, it's just a circular fan that sticks to the radiator. The corners and sides are exposed with no fan.
                            M. Cholewa

                            Because they heard I liked my name, so they put my name as my name so I could have my name in my name... all the time.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Cholewa View Post
                              The fan is wired through the EMS so that when it detects coolant temps over a certain temp, it kicks on. The fan is small compared to the radiator, and isn't shrouded like a typical clutch fan would be. This really has no shroud, it's just a circular fan that sticks to the radiator. The corners and sides are exposed with no fan.
                              Sounds like your fan is too small or it needs to be shrouded so that it pulls air through the entire surface area of your radiator. You could try getting a larger aftermarket fan or try finding a car in the junkyard that came with an electric fan. I dont know the size of your radiator, but if you can find a early to mid 90's Ford Taurus 3.8L dual fan and it fits, that would solve your problem. They are a two speed fan but pull 4000 cfm on high. Pull A Part probably has one and you'd need probably $30 worth of wiring, relay and a switch to install it.
                              Rusty Spray
                              '91 Camaro RS -- Sold

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