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  • water/methanol injection

    I am considering putting methanol injection on my car and am curious to hear from some who have done it and how effective it was in real world results and also how much of a nuisance keeping the supply of methanol stocked. I am also toying with the idea of tuning the car for E85.

    I am leaning more towards methanol injection due to the sheer lack of stations that sell E85.

    What exactly keeps a person from assembling their own methanol kit rather than paying 300-500 for a ready made kit ? I would think that a guy could round up a couple of nitrous nozzles or a couple of old VW CIS mechanical injectors and a pump and use their w/s washer reservoir or some other suitable container to act as a reservoir....Thoughts???
    Ricky R
    95 240sx with LS1 power. $4500 drivetrain in a $500 car
    97 miata pretty much stock

  • #2
    Search it on turbobricks, there are a few members who have done just that with either the cold start injector or through a cheap nozzle they bought, all made through junk yard parts and what not.
    M. Cholewa

    Because they heard I liked my name, so they put my name as my name so I could have my name in my name... all the time.

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    • #3
      Yes, Methanol is great. But, relying on a system with extra pumps and nozzles also adds more parts that can fail. I've seen some nasty damage from failed Meth systems ranging from running out of Methanol to a nozzle coming loose in the intake and entering a cylinder.

      In my opinion, E85 is the logical choice. Especially since you work right next door to a station.

      E85 relies only on the standard fuel system. It's much less likely to fail and you don't have to worry about extra parts. you just need a fuel pump and injectors that can flow enough, and maybe replace a few fuel lines. There is pretty much 0 chance of failure.
      Matt W.
      18 SM - Lancer Evolution MR
      15 MR - Volkswagen Beetle
      Sponsors: Satellite Racing - Defined Performance

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by TouringBubble View Post
        Yes, Methanol is great. But, relying on a system with extra pumps and nozzles also adds more parts that can fail. I've seen some nasty damage from failed Meth systems ranging from running out of Methanol to a nozzle coming loose in the intake and entering a cylinder.

        In my opinion, E85 is the logical choice. Especially since you work right next door to a station.

        E85 relies only on the standard fuel system. It's much less likely to fail and you don't have to worry about extra parts. you just need a fuel pump and injectors that can flow enough, and maybe replace a few fuel lines. There is pretty much 0 chance of failure.
        All things I have been wrestling with . Right now, unfortunately, the stock 270cc injectors and the stock fuelpump is barely able to cope with 8 PSI of boost on 93. I am thinking,at a minimum, I will probably need to step up to a 550cc injector and a 255 pump to do ethanol due to having to inject more of it .

        I still daily drive the car so it's really a pretty big decision but I really am not stuck with either one since the car is doing pretty well as it is tuned without either one but it sure would be nice to be able to run more timing under boost without having to worry about detonation . Its on the ragged edge right now . Literally 1-2 degrees of timing pushes it over the edge in some areas of the table.

        I tried to get some dyno time today with Blake but he was unreachable.
        Ricky R
        95 240sx with LS1 power. $4500 drivetrain in a $500 car
        97 miata pretty much stock

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        • #5
          Your computer will support multiple maps/tunes, add a switch to the dash to swap maps and a lever to the gear shift to disengage the blower Mad Max style. Oh yeah!
          Darryl E.
          Blue Miata with ricer stickers.
          Wizzer Motorsports

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          • #6
            Originally posted by engled View Post
            your computer will support multiple maps/tunes, add a switch to the dash to swap maps and a lever to the gear shift to disengage the blower mad max style. Oh yeah!
            g-i-gg-i-d-y
            Ricky R
            95 240sx with LS1 power. $4500 drivetrain in a $500 car
            97 miata pretty much stock

            Comment


            • #7
              Im glad you bring that up Darryl. I also considered maybe an extra fuel system then quickly said .....what the heck are you thinking ...a fuel cell full of E85 would weigh around 75lbs assuming it was around an 8 gal cell plus mounting and the cell and lines plus passing tech.

              BTW , can you actually switch between maps/tunes that easily without actually reburning the tune ?

              Oh yeah...since I didnt get to go to the dyno today , I dropped the car off at the exhaust shop today and had 2.5" exhaust run front to rear with a baby turbo muffler . Wow what a differance . I was still running the stock pipe with the stock resonator . I guess Ill go see Blake in a couple weeks when my mad money builds back up .
              Last edited by zukitek; 07-14-2011, 08:10 PM.
              Ricky R
              95 240sx with LS1 power. $4500 drivetrain in a $500 car
              97 miata pretty much stock

              Comment


              • #8
                Wait, you're turbo now? When the hell did I miss that?!
                Nick Stone

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by zukitek View Post

                  BTW , can you actually switch between maps/tunes that easily without actually reburning the tune ?
                  Oh yeah.



                  You could hook it to you Mad Max Switch...
                  Darryl E.
                  Blue Miata with ricer stickers.
                  Wizzer Motorsports

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by seducksauce View Post
                    Wait, you're turbo now? When the hell did I miss that?!
                    I retrofitted a Eaton m62 roots blower from an xterra to it . So far have put around 200 miles on it since I got it all together and still tuning.
                    Ricky R
                    95 240sx with LS1 power. $4500 drivetrain in a $500 car
                    97 miata pretty much stock

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Oh wow. We must compare notes some day...met your kid btw. He's hanging out with us drifters now apparently :P
                      Nick Stone

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by seducksauce View Post
                        Oh wow. We must compare notes some day...met your kid btw. He's hanging out with us drifters now apparently :P
                        yep . We are gearing up to do a 20 valve 4AGE swap on his MK1 MR2 in a couple weeks.Probably end up doing megasquirt on it too before it is over with.
                        Ricky R
                        95 240sx with LS1 power. $4500 drivetrain in a $500 car
                        97 miata pretty much stock

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                        • #13
                          Yeah that's what he said. Should be a zippy little ride after that...
                          Nick Stone

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                          • #14
                            I am trying to talk him out of that friggin loud arsed muffler he has on it right now . Its unbearable with the 16v motor and with the 20v motor it is going to be just plain insanely loud

                            anyhoo now that I have jacked my own thread.

                            Matt...what is the rough percentage of additional VE required between unleaded to E85? How much more timing can a guy typically get away with between the 2?
                            Last edited by zukitek; 07-14-2011, 09:25 PM.
                            Ricky R
                            95 240sx with LS1 power. $4500 drivetrain in a $500 car
                            97 miata pretty much stock

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              You need about 30% more fuel. At speed it's more like 26% or so. Stoich on E85 is like 9.8:1.

                              Timing depends on the car and boost/compression. On the Evo I run around 2º more at peak boost and around 5º more at redline, but I also run about 5 psi more boost.

                              Also, stock Evo injectors are 550s if they will work on the 240. Not sure. But they are cheap.
                              Matt W.
                              18 SM - Lancer Evolution MR
                              15 MR - Volkswagen Beetle
                              Sponsors: Satellite Racing - Defined Performance

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