New Sunday Schedule

[DelanieC]

Simply out - Quit your bitching and become part of the solution, not part of the problem

Excuse me??? Please explain to me how constructive criticism is "part of the problem". I provided a very simple solution that would've left all parties happy and since you were unable to refute it you resort to personal insults? I'm shocked Craig. Please ask anyone in the ALSCCA leadership about my willingness to do the grunt work.

[JohnW8]

Whoa Craig, that was uncalled for. Delanie is always willing to help. In fact, after he withdrew, he changed clothes and went to work at the event. I know some comments we've seen in the past 24 hours might deserve that response, this is not one of them.

[rodhx]

Earlier today I first heard of the proposal to hold a TT session if there was time remaining at the end of the races. I think that is a suggestion worth considering for future weather-impacted events. I see no reason why we cannot make that work if (1) there is sufficient time for two TT sessions (tintop & formula cars. I assume the proposal didn't exude wings & things) and (2) a minimum number of cars take the grid, say 5 for discussion sake. I would not support keeping dozens of workers around for the misery of 1 or 2 cars circulating alone. After all, club races have to meet a minimum participation number or they can be stopped early.

Delanie hopefully you know I appreciate your work and dedication to our club. Please don't take the following as a smart@ss response but rather a plea for help. ALSCCA needs someone like you to step up as TT Chair since Mark is stepping down. We need an event chair for the Fall TGPR event. Right now it's me 'cause no one else will step up. If you're interested then getting involved now with the Fall event is the perfect way to get trained. Just let us know.

[farrout]

Delanie - I can only apologize to you for the harsh words and I humbly do so.

Rod was far more elegant with how he expressed the situation and the need for people to step up. While "grunt" work is certainly always needed, there is also a huge need for the credentialed positions - Race Admin, T&S, Scrutineer, Chief Steward, Chief Instructor, Safety, Registrar, Grid, etc.

[FVee90]

I can see that there is a reasonable discussion point on an end of day (Sunday) TT session. The formula car group would be the exception until entry levels improve. I have been part of the late on Sunday group of two and have felt guilty of being in such a small number (2 until the other one flamed out..literally). I would assume that if there was no problem on Saturday/Sunday and everyone has the scheduled groups as per the schedule we are not having the discussion but we may need to keep this in mind if the schedule is altered like the past two years.
I am very open to it let's get this event behind us and relax and make TGPR a great event.

[rodhx]

I can see that there is a reasonable discussion point on an end of day (Sunday) TT session. The formula car group would be the exception until entry levels improve. I have been part of the late on Sunday group of two and have felt guilty of being in such a small number (2 until the other one flamed out..literally). I would assume that if there was no problem on Saturday/Sunday and everyone has the scheduled groups as per the schedule we are not having the discussion but we may need to keep this in mind if the schedule is altered like the past two years.
I am very open to it let's get this event behind us and relax and make TGPR a great event.

Well said Mark.

I think the part I bolded/underlined is exactly the point. No saturday difficulties = no sunday adjustments. If the end of day sessions need to be considered there should be time to consult TT drivers to see if we have critical mass expected to go out. When the dreaded "schedule change" email goes out it can include mention of potential TT sessions at the end of the day time permitting. A Sunday morning TT drivers meeting can be called to get an indication of how many may stick around for it. That would let us know if we need time for one session or two...or none.

[Chuck Baader]

We all tend to have a knee jerk reaction to any type of criticism by an entrant. The solution to that is to actually help with the scheduling and organization of the race. Had more members helped, John might have been able to actually race rather that working many hours all weekend.

[JohnW8]

We all tend to have a knee jerk reaction to any type of criticism by an entrant. The solution to that is to actually help with the scheduling and organization of the race. Had more members helped, John might have been able to actually race rather that working many hours all weekend.

We had the largest number of volunteer workers this year than ever before. It was greatly appreciated by me as well as the TVR bunch.
Schedules always find someones toes to step on. And I do understand that we can't plan for every contingency. Even with 45 minutes at the end of the day, do we call it a day and let the workers go home after spending all weekend in the elements, or do we let a small group of drivers go out for another session. The schedule was adjusted to be fair and equitable but if we had a big wreck or a damaged armco that needed replacement, there wouldn't have been that 45 minutes. You can't plan for the end of the day, at least I don't know how you can.

I didn't mind too much sitting out this race. Because of who I am, I know that I'd not be fully focused on racing or race chairing, so both would suffer. I wouldn't like to go through the museum turn three wide with Spec Wreckers all around me wondering if the ice chest was full.

[FVee90]

Oh the ice chest was full just not enough diet cokes.......what were you thinking mon?

[farrout]

The schedule adjusting is a hurried process at best. I could have done it better and maybe preserved the TT Sunday Schedule by taking more time than we did from the Road racers. You have the Chief Steward and other Stewards plus the Race Chair trying to figure the adjusted schedule out in a hurry. The Chief Steward has to then take the resultant RFA to the SOM and get it approved. Plus you want to get it out to all the entrants and workers that evening so they know when and where they have to be in the morning. There is not time available (nor the means) to get the drivers together to consult with them.

On Saturday, we were running 30-45 mins late before the storm simply due to the large number of cars that went off all day and had to be retrieved. We were prepared to buy an extra hour of track time to see the Saturday schedule finished that day (and then the lightening came).

Even in the "pure" schedule, we attempt to preserve some time at the end of Sunday and Saturday to handle the usual things that cost us time. Given the issues with cars off on Saturday, we were conservative in the Sunday reschedule knowing that the weather was probably going to be wet. As luck would have it, Sunday saw a lot less time lost to cleanup but it could just as easily gone the other way. I would not have bet there would be any time left when we started on Sunday morning and that is what I told the TT guys who asked me.

[rodhx]

I don't disagree with any of that Craig. Now that I have heard the end of day suggestion, using this past weekend as an example, here are the things we might be able to do differently in the future for a similarly affected Saturday...

1. All those hurried meetings with Stewards/Chairs/whosoevers still occur as they did. I agree there is no time to consult drivers at this stage but that wasn't what I was suggesting.

2. If after those meetings the best we could do was cut TT sessions/time, then on the revised Sunday schedule include "Tentative TT Session(s)" at the end of the final race.

3. When the revised schedule gets emailed Saturday evening be sure to include a message to TT folks noting the potential for end-of-day sessions and tell them a TT driver meeting will be called on Sunday. Could be morning, could be @ lunch, whatever.

4. In the Sunday TT driver meeting:

• Explain that there could be an additional session at the end of the day if there is enough time before 5pm to complete a meaningful session plus a small contingency buffer (5-10 minutes) in case the track needs to be cleared and if there are enough drivers to justify.
• Poll the crowd to see who will "commit" to sticking around for a tentative session.
• Determine if there are enough drivers in each category to require both a tintop and a formula car session. Seeing how we held a race on Sunday for 6 cars I would set 5 or 6 as the TT minimum for these potential sessions.
• Given enough interest to possibly make a session, make it clear to the TT drivers that they need to be watching the clock and be prepared for a grid call because there may not be opportunity for much advance warning. (I don't think it's feasible to make the final decision until the start of the last race.)

5. Once the final race group rolls out, if it looks like sufficient time will be available then have PA call the TT drivers to grid. If we reach "1 and go" stage and the minimum number isn't there, cancel the session. Repeat if needed for a winged group.

I think it could work something like this, and I think just making the effort would go a long way after the last two years. If we had been prepared to do something like this on Sunday we could possibly have given the guys as much as a 30 minute session (assuming the formula cars were gone since only a handful were there anyway) and still ended a little early.

[farrout]

Every delay situation is different so each reschedule has different facets.

When I talked to the TT guys Sunday morn, I did ask how many TT drivers would be stay around for an end of day session. I did not get a firm answer but the number appeared to be about ~4.

I was not optimistic that any time would be left at the end of the day for 2 TT sessions. I told them my fears that we would not actually have any time left using Saturday as an example (of course, in hindsight, I was wrong). We did discuss my move to combine the 2 ten minute sessions into one 20 minute session. Also that given the wet track I doubted that TT times would be any faster than Saturday. I offered them the option of not driving Sunday and refunding money back to the one day rate.

We have learned a lot and we can apply it to next year

[rodhx]

Every delay situation is different so each reschedule has different facets.

When I talked to the TT guys Sunday morn, I did ask how many TT drivers would be stay around for an end of day session. I did not get a firm answer but the number appeared to be about ~4.

I was not optimistic that any time would be left at the end of the day for 2 TT sessions. I told them my fears that we would not actually have any time left using Saturday as an example (of course, in hindsight, I was wrong). We did discuss my move to combine the 2 ten minute sessions into one 20 minute session. Also that given the wet track I doubted that TT times would be any faster than Saturday. I offered them the option of not driving Sunday and refunding money back to the one day rate.

We have learned a lot and we can apply it to next year

Please understand that I am not second-guessing the weekend's decisions. It's the learn for next time that's important so I'm just tossing out a process that might work. Thankfully we won't have to worry about it until next year.

[slowautoxr]

There is one very small group (maybe just one individual) that has not been considered. The Sunday only TT'rs.

I paid the same one day fee of $250 for my wife just like I did for Shelton on Saturday. The deck was already stacked against the Sunday only folks since they were only scheduled to get 30 minutes of time.

Cost/minute was brought up earlier. That's $8.33/minute. When it was reduced to 20 minutes, that became $12.50/minute. When I realized that she was only going to get one session, I gave serious thought about withdrawing. But she's worth $250. That one session will provide much FB fodder and conversation for her.

[rodhx]

Thanks for chiming in Charles. You're correct...I don't think anyone has thought of possible Sunday only folks. The end of day approach would accommodate that of course.

You have more reason to complain than anyone. I guess I should have let Barbara take that test drive in the pace car after all.