TGPR School

[chuck schultz]

It's quite a bit, but amortized over the life of the device, it's infinitesimal. You'll probably spend more on gasoline per event.

my car gets pretty bad gas mileage at WOT, but not that horrible!

Let's say the transponder lasts 20 events - that's $21 per event. 42 events - $10 per.

[Chuck Baader]

1. Get gcr.

2. Read gcr.

3. Comply.

[Jedi1]

If you want an instructor in the car with you, and you will, don't forget the passenger also needs a seat and belts.

[chuck schultz]

passenger also needs a seat and belts.

No in-car instructors for Track Trials, but good advice for a PDX.

1. Get gcr.

http://www.scca.com/documents/Club%2...CR/2009GCR.pdf

Also, TT rulebook - http://www.scca.com/documents/Club%20Rules/2008TTR.pdf ,

both linked from http://www.scca.com/contentpage.aspx?content=44

[Jedi1]

So, let me get this straight. You can get your TT license without ever having an instructor in the car with you? That is not only one of the dumbest things I've ever heard, it's dangerous.

[EWaugh]

That's the way it is in TT. Does an instructor get in the car for the Comp School? Part of this, I think, comes from the inability to put a instructor in a formula car. I have seen people not come away with a license too.

[Jedi1]

Formula cars and sports racers have always had their own way of dealing with things, but if the car has doors and and a way to put 2 seats in it, not making an instructor mandatory for first time drivers is insanity. Period, no arguements.

[Welacey]

Most TT guys had numerous HPDE's under their belts and have worked the track for
TT before their 1st TT track day. Let the safety record speak for itself. Alan Branch was my instructor and although he didn't ride with me he watched me the whole time and gave me good information between runs. The system has worked well Sean, you should participate 1st before condemning the process.

[farrout]

You have inadvertantly hit upon one of the major differences between TT and Roadracing and HPDE/PDX. In TT and RR, there is no one to show you the proper line and correct your faults. You get to figure it out as you drive the course, by yourself.

Not everyone who attends a TT or RR school departs it with his/her license. People have been known to fail the schools. The answer to a simple question governs it. Do the instructors feel that you have enough experience/maturity/control/SA, etc such that they would be comfortable being on the same track with you in a race situation?

[Jedi1]

In no way am I condemning the process as a whole. I do know that over the last several years the landscape of on track driving has changed quite alot from when I got started and I have heard of people jumping in WAY too deep at the start of their on track experience. If most folks are still doing some HPDE and working a bit before jumping into TT then that is great to hear. What it was reading like where I picked this up was if someone wanted to jump into TT with absolutely no on track experience then they would have their first sessions on an actual road course with no instruction. If that's not the case then wonderful. If there is the possibility of this happening, then that is not a good idea and I completely stand by what I said before.

[Patrix33]

From my participation and watching others in their first TT event, I would have to say the lead follow method of instructing has brought great results to the students. If they are not on the track they are in the class learning skills, lines and most importantly etiquette. I would guess the number of TT cars whom have the ability to allow for a passenger (instructor) is fairly low anyways.

TT vs Track Days, two different mind sets. One you can win and one you cannot. I would have to say my experience at TT has helped me out at track days much more than vice versa.

As for an earlier post about the grocery list of things to buy before the event, take the $420 for the transponder and invest into a few things needed for a two day event. Hotel (or camping), a car cover and an easy up will be highly valuable at the TGPRIX event. Spend the extra money saved on a comfortable driving suit AND look closely at the cool suit system. Sitting in grid wondering if there is a spider in your suit or just a sweat bead running down your neck is not fun.

Just my .02

[chuck schultz]

get your TT license without ever having an instructor in the car

Some might say that this is why NASA has a better program, where you generally have to prove yourself by working up through the HPDE system before moving to TT. Others, however, think it's just a way to get more money from folks before their first comp event.

Traditionally, a SEDiv SCCA TT school has some classroom instruction, then the first session on track is a lead-follow session, with each student getting at least one lap tucked in behind an instructor's car. Then, there is no wheel-to-wheel driving. Everybody does their comp laps in small "pods" without passing allowed. Overtaking calls for a rerun. As a result, it's pretty safe, with instructors watching their driver(s,) providing feedback after every handful of laps.

At an SCCA Club Racing school, I seem to remember lots of classroom (a whole day?) then some recon laps in instructor tow rigs, followed by more classroom, then out on track with oddly mixed groups, for short sensory overload practice sessions. There's no requirement for any previous performance driving experience of any kind. At the end of the school, they get to have a short race. All the while, they're being watched closely.

It generally works out as pretty safe, even for inexperienced folks who go out and buy a Formula Atlantic for a first track car. The biggest safety issues I've seen are breakdowns who just pull off and sit there like they're d***, er, incapacitated, and don't let the corners know they're OK. There are sometimes a few boneheads out there, but they usually get counseled and/or culled pretty quickly.

[farrout]

if someone wanted to jump into TT with absolutely no on track experience then they would have their first sessions on an actual road course with no instruction.

It is possible for a driver to come to either the TT school or the RR school without any prior track experience. At either school, that inexperience would show itself. Not everyone passes the TT or the RR school (you have to pass 2 RR schools).

HPDEs are a big advantage. I did them for 5 years at various tracks. Seemed to learn something from every instructor I had. Spent a lot of time following friends in their 93 RX7s and learning from them. The styles of driving for SOLO and track are different.

The advantage of TT is that you are mostly out there by yourself and cannot take another driver with you when you screw up. Spend the TT school going off track and it only demonstrates to your instructor that you do not have the maturity/experience/control to race. You will not pass the school in that case.

At the RR school I attended, there was a guy who rented a Radical DSR. He had never driven it nor had he ever been on a race track before. Sadly, he spent more time parked in the grass, broke every starter the owners had and had to be push started on Sunday. A year later, another young man came to the school with a nice $45K Stohr DSR without any real experience. His instructor told him to follow a friend's DSR in the practice sessions to learn the track. He still drove the DSR 10-15 seconds off the lap times he should have had.

Neither the TT nor the RR school are intended to teach you how to drive. It is assumed that you have some experience already. Yes, there is a track walk or drive around with the instructor to show you the particular track line but that is more for safety and to help you get thru the initial track learning stage. They teach you how to race safely. They are to teach you the importance of flags and track courtesy. They are also for you to demonstrate to the instructors that you can play well with others on track, that you maintain situational awareness on track, and that you can handle your car and yourself at race speeds.

The 2 RR schools only get you a Novice license after which you have to demonstrate in a race situation that you are not a danger to others, etc before you can get signed off. It is not automatic.

NASA, PCA, BMWCCA do put you thru a more rigorous "prove yourself" program.

[87RX7RACER]

1. Get gcr.

2. Read gcr.

3. Comply.

Thanks Chuck! You make it sound so easy! lol... At this point I'll be lucky to get just my cage installed in time for the event-hopefully in a few years I'll have everything I need.

So basically I just need to get the car prepped for ITS to run in TT then...

-Vincent.

[EWaugh]

I hate to be the spoil sport but if I could make a suggestion. I started out auto-xing four years ago. I've had a pretty solid track day and TT schedule for the last two years. As a driver I'm just getting to where I might be able to be a little better than pack fodder in a IT field. I was able to keep pace with Steve at TGPR. I would have to guess that he was slightly faster, but he wasn't lapping me in a 20 minute session like he was last year. I finally broke into the 1.53's at Barber's on a cold track with dead tires, I think Chuck runs 47's. My point is don't jump into this too quickly because speed, and being somewhat comfortable at speed doesn't come overnight. Keep auto-xing and get your tt lincense. Run a couple of track days with an instructor, get signed off by that/those instructor. Once you do that start instructing. I couldn't afford to run 8 track days a year at Barber's if I didn't instruct. I kit a little bit of a plateu speed wise for a little bit. I think what broke it was Joe. I let Joe by me on my out lap last year and decided that I was going to chase him down. I probably dropped three seconds watching his line and adjusting mine so that I could catch him. Towards the end of the session I got the point and promptly started starving for fuel, which costs about 2 seconds/lap and nearly spun it at 15. I let him back by and we both came in. I've learned a lot from Chuck as well, most of it has been verbal, but it has been worth a few seconds too.