Course set up proposal

[engled]

After the course problems Saturday and to a lesser degree Sunday I would to make a proposal. The course designer needs run the course at full speed before the masses are sent out on it to ensure SAFETY and flow. It's pretty simple, some times we misjudge the finish, the jump, the dip, the pole, the curb, the grip, etc... A lot of regions do this, Nationals does this, we need to do this...

If you want the whine about he/she gets a extra runs all you have to do is volunteer to set up the course. Be there around 6:30 and be ready to work your ass off.

What says you?

[rodhx]

Makes sense to me. Doing this means we have to shut down folks who start walking the course before it is approved, which happens at all our events.

[engled]

Makes sense to me. Doing this means we have to shut down folks who start walking the course before it is approved, which happens at all our events.

Very true and a good point but I still think it's doable.

Oddly enough I have shown up to a H'ville event I had since enough to not walk the course while the were pre-running it, but thats just me.

[jeallen]

This gets positive votes from me, but I feel I should point out that much of the issues we had steamed from a lack of familiarity with the venue. There are conditions/issues that are obvious to us now, that will be avoided next time.

On a related note: Dave pointed out that cones were being moved while we were still approving the course (and that other regions have this issue). Most of the time this isn't a problem, but a well meaning shift in cone placement by driver could alter speed or course enough to create an unsafe condition (especially around elements like the shift in grade).

Dave suggest better control while the course is still under scrutiny from the SSS and that critical cones be marked before allowing drivers access to walk and mark pointers and the visual queues.

[rodhx]

I certainly think it's doable. Just be a big mindset change for some of our early course walkers. I think it may also mean we need to get the courses finalized and approved earlier than our norm or there won't be much time for walking the course.

I agree on both counts John. Future events there should certainly flow smoother. Unnecessary, unwanted, and unhelpful "junior course designers" fiddling with cones while walking the course seem to be a universal bane of the autocross world. I don't get the mindset that says "my opinion is so important it doesn't really matter that I am neither the course designer, a safety steward, nor event chair so I'll tweak a cone or two as I see fit". We need to add this to the usual driver's meeting speech to start correcting the problem.

[jeallen]

While we're discussing course design, safety etc. We seem to married to slowing the finish at the finish. I am a adrenalin junky and love a fast finish, but I am concerned this has the effect of unsettling the car near timing lights. I would really like to see us make an effort to slow the drivers an element (or two!) before the finish.
(I may be channeling Mark Kilgore here).

[JohnW8]

This gets positive votes from me, but I feel I should point out that much of the issues we had steamed from a lack of familiarity with the venue. There are conditions/issues that are obvious to us now, that will be avoided next time.

I agree with Darryl's suggestion. Pre-running the course is almost a necessity for designing fun courses to avoid the painful and to temper the sketchy sections.

Both the "dip" and the "jump" were pointed out to be avoided with the course designer days before the event. We have run there before and we were not unfamiliar with the venue.
The course was very similar to a previous course design with the same issues.

It should be obvious that any element of a course that causes body, frame, splitter, chassis, chain damage needs to be avoided. The fact that many were ok with it causes concern with me as a safety steward.

[SamC]

I like the idea. The main driver for doing this is for people to have fun and be safe. It's not like we are racing for money so driving it beforehand is a good idea. Thanks for suggesting this Darryl.

[SamC]

I also think it would be good to have a fast, lowered car....like a blue miata to test it since it would show how bad dips, jumps, etc really are. Thanks again Darryl :-)

[claym]

All good suggestions. Really not as much of an issue at Oak Mountain, but a larger area with landscape challenges is much more difficult. Thx for everyone for their patience this past weekend and sorry if there were difficulties. Hopefully people had a little fun at a great site. Every site gets better use of the landscape as more ideas are hashed out. But thank you for your patience in this process and great ideas so far.

And anyone wanting some "fencing" lessons please send me a PM....

[jeallen]

It should be obvious that any element of a course that causes body, frame, splitter, chassis, chain damage needs to be avoided. The fact that many were ok with it causes concern with me as a safety steward.

I agree cars should be able to navigate the course without damage to their vehicle. In the past I have been viewing this in a more two-dimensional perspective (how likely you are to have/create an issue as a result of a spin). Having the benefit of hindsight now see where this is myopic. I will be much more sensitive to lowered cars this in the future.

[Jedi1]

Every course I've ever designed got a drive through. Sometimes more than one. I used to get grief from a few folks when we were at the dog track for doing it, but it's really the only way to know for sure that things are really good.

The courses over this weekend were amazing, jumps and all, but I totally agree with the drive through scenario for so many reasons.

[HPEVOX]

YES. I can understand people saying "Hey that guy is taking 10 runs to get familiar and faster. That ain't fair." I think protecting their car from possible damage AND just making the course flow better in general would be a higher priority than trying to beat said "pre-runner".

I tried to listen in on the safety discussion and learn a little. It is hard to make a minor adjustment to the course when you're only a few feet away from being too close to an oncoming car and a light pole. A lot goes into a course design. I know I was probably one of the first to complain about the dip and Clay seemed to take it objectively and find a way to fix the problem with the safety stewards approval. A lot at work there and I appreciate the effort that went into lunch Saturday.

As far as the finish. I was approaching the top of 2nd in Sam's car which is pretty quick and had 0 issue coming to a halt before jumping the hill. People need to brake AT THE LIGHTS. Not at the end of the last cone after the timing lights. I saw certain cars doing it both days. Full throttle until the last cone of the finish box. I see it at OMA regularly as well. Maybe that can be stressed more at driver's meeting? Seems to be the experienced guys doing it though so…. you can't fix stupid.

[rodhx]

My not-quite-serious suggestion regarding Sunday's finish was to turn the stop box 90 degrees at the "jump", forcing drivers to slow appropriately or risk cone penalties. Oh the wailing and gnashing of teeth THAT would have caused...



Heath, maybe all our braking practice at the Teen Driver Clinics paid off Sunday.

[e30Racer]

While we're discussing course design, safety etc. We seem to married to slowing the finish at the finish. I am a adrenalin junky and love a fast finish, but I am concerned this has the effect of unsettling the car near timing lights. I would really like to see us make an effort to slow the drivers an element (or two!) before the finish.
(I may be channeling Mark Kilgore here).

Ain't nothing wrong with that John Allen. We can do a better job about keeping people off of the course until it is approved. And we can also do better with getting safety stewards there to approve the course as soon as practical. I have no issue with the course designer taking a couple runs. We also need to get some new blood into making courses so that we have people we can rely on. Clay isn't always able to make it to the races haha.

But seriously....this picture pretty much sums up how me and John Allen feel. SOMEONE'S OUT FOR BLOOD!!!! THE BASH BROTHERS.... (I kid...I kid hahaha)