Supp Classes for 2012

[e30Racer]

Well SCCA is finally getting some sense when it comes to what "Stock" means. They are introducing new "Stock" classes dubbed, Road Tire classes. These classes will follow the stock category rules, but the tires must remain 140+ treadwear rating. In my opinion, 140+ should be the way stock classes should always have been, but whatever. Read the announcement below....

http://www.scca.com/events/news.cfm?eid=3893&cid=50923

[rodhx]

I am guessing it will be difficult for many potential SEDIV competitors to bring themselves to run in a "RTR" class. Personally I would rather jump straight into CSP.

These classes are put up or shut up time for those who have been calling for r-comps to be taken out of the stock classes.

[kilgojr]

We could have a "WDE" supp class as well.

[JohnW8]

So I guess there will be potential for an increase in noisy tires coming from the stock classes.

With all the classes and no prerequisite for Nationals of previously attending a tour...hmmm, sounds like Nationals could become a 2 week event instead of a 1 week event.

I've always believed that Stock classes should run "stock tires". Seems they could've just made that a class requirement instead of adding even more classes. If it thins out any more there won't be enough people to make a class.

[Cholewa]

I'm with John on that, I always thought stock meant stock. 140 tread wear might as well be an r comp compared to the tires a car normally comes with.

So with stock having actual dot road legal and sane to use daily tires, what's gonna happen to the tire pax?

[rodhx]

Nothing will happen to tire pax. It is open to all classes other than the Street Touring set...not just Stock.

And there are quite a few cars that come from the factory on 140 (or less) treadwear tires. Several of the Mazdas come to mind.

[JohnW8]

I'm with John on that, I always thought stock meant stock. 140 tread wear might as well be an r comp compared to the tires a car normally comes with.

So with stock having actual dot road legal and sane to use daily tires, what's gonna happen to the tire pax?

There will be a Road tire Pax, a Hard tire Pax, a Soft tire Pax, a R-Comp pax, a Bridestone Pax a Toyo pax a Hoosier PAx, a Falken pax, a Miata Pax, a hardtop Pax, a red car PAx a blue car pax there will be so many classes and pax's (pox) that we will be taking individual runs around a course and not competing with anyone but only comparing our pax numbers. ( I kid of course)

We could all just put our initials on the car for a class with our pax number and be done. LOL!

But they say this is a time to put up or shut up. I wonder how many folks will drop their less than140 treadwear tires for factory skids. I also wonder if it takes off how quick 140+ tires will all of the sudden get slightly more expensive to buy.

FEWER CLASSES PLEASE.

[TouringBubble]

Assuming we will just let local competitors run a T pax on their stock class rather than implement these classes for the 2012 season?

[Erv]

I have also felt stock should be stock, 140 treadwear is kinda moot, mainly because manufacturers designate the treadwear of a tire. It should also require running the tire size that came on the car.

Isn't their a class in road racing that is showroom stock? no mods other than tires and a cage?we should have one of those classes.

[claym]

Stock class used to have a tire exclusion list (Hoosier Autocrosser bias tire comes to mind). Yokohama broke the stock class tires with the first R compound (A001R) even though the Phoenix Staflex was credited to be the first sticky tire (but no R).

An exclusion list would be the easiest to enforce, since the new tire models available after April 31 are not allowed for that year. It is easy for a manufacturer to put the necessary treadwear rating on a tire. Or do you think all 200 treadwear tires will last the same amount of miles used in a similar manner? I remember BFG used to have "special" tires for Nationals with a "fresh" batch of tires that were much stickier than other build dates and would wear much faster (and were just for their contract autocross drivers). But they looked identical...

Yes, it is racing and everyone wants an edge

The Oak Mountain site is way too abrasive for R compounds (in my opinion with a FWD car). The 140 tires are the best bang for the buck there (at 105 each vs 230 each for hoosiers)

[claym]

Assuming we will just let local competitors run a T pax on their stock class rather than implement these classes for the 2012 season?

There really are not enough drivers in tire class to split up into 3 classes on a local basis IMHO. But maybe that class will grow more this year. You can watch the signup at Dixie Tour to see a national interest trend (kinda not much interest yet). When I use up my Hoosiers, I may look at changing since thay will have the classes at Tours (and a lot easier on the tire budget since gas keeps going up)...

[mpcavana]

Many of the drivers that lobbied for national Stock classes running street tires instead of r-compounds (like me) gave up on the SEB and moved into the ST classes. However I have been considering taking the 350Z to Dixie. It is CS legal and the Star Specs still have life in them. I'm thinking about bringing both cars to the T&T and trying it out in that configuration.

[chuck schultz]

tire exclusion list

I remember seeing a couple items listed there, when I first started at this game, but they disappeared pretty quickly afterward. I think my first SIIRB had a big Y on the back, which I'm sure was merely coincidental with the timing of the shrinking of the list. . .

[Erv]

Can we have a 400 ugtq class? Call it all seasons class.

[JohnW8]

With the idea of eliminating the high cost of R Comps in favor less expensive street tires let's not get carried away and create a spec tire class. Because of there is a spec tire for a class and that class becomes popular that very "inexpensive" tire has then the opportunity to become a very expensive spec tire.

Why not just have a "run what you brung" mentality and have fun? Diluting the stock classes over tire brands is kinda silly. Where does it stop? Shocks next? Do we start having stock classes with stock shocks and factory tires along side the stock classes with 140tw tires and Konis and another for Bilsteins and Hankooks? I guarantee you that if this class takes off there will be someone who will get some <140 TW tires and shave them and doctor them up with some goat pee to gain an advantage. It's part of the game. Ervin mentioned Showroom Stock club racers, trust me there aren't many things on a "showroom stock" car that hasn't been completely optimized to the limit of the rules.
That's part of competition.

I want to win a tour. First I have to compete against a very competitive class in CSP led in the SEDIV by a very quick Datsun 2000 before worrying abut the Tim Aro's of the world on a National level. Should I compete to win or harrass SCCA to make a new class like; CSP-lite and CSP-National so I improve my chances of winning by eliminating the competition?

I might as well lock the competition in the porta-potty before they can get to grid.

Competition is why I autocross. I want to win, I want to improve my abilities but
I won't be upset if I get beat and I won't blame the cost of tires for my losses.