Move Over !!!

[slowautoxr]

Okay than this is one right?

[engled]

And there should be something about getting wet when it rains regardless of the position of the top as well.

[slowautoxr]

or:

[slowautoxr]

I know this one is:


it says so here.
"It was also Buick's only sports car at the time."

[rodhx]

The green Model A has a back seat, so no

The Buick's picture doesn't show up, so it must not qualify either. "It was also Buick's only sports car at the time" So...does that mean there has been other Buick "sports cars"? Must be thinking about the Reatta

[TouringBubble]

Waitwaitwait ... does it have to be fully removable, or to Targas/Ts count?

Just going down a list here ...

Viper GTS
Corvette Z06/ZR1
911 Turbo/GT3/Cayman
DBS
F430/F360
Exige (debatable as the roof is bolted on and "technically" removable)
GTR (R35 ... has a back seat, but a small one)
FD RX-7

I can keep going ... too bad none of these are sports cars.

[Jedi1]

"precise handling, brisk acceleration, and sharp braking." Someone needs to get Charles to actually read the posts... errr, wait a sec. Can Charles read? I don't want to be disrespectful if he can't.

[TouringBubble]

"precise handling, brisk acceleration, and sharp braking." Someone needs to get Charles to actually read the posts... errr, wait a sec. Can Charles read? I don't want to be disrespectful if he can't.

I would have thrown an Evo in to the list, but you'd obviously disagree on the "Precise Handling" part ...

[rodhx]

I would have thrown an Evo in to the list, but you'd obviously disagree on the "Precise Handling" part ...

that was worth this quick revisit to the forum!

[Jedi1]

I think EVO's are awesome. Everyone runs out of talent at some point, that was my point for that day.

[jimkana]

Great. Here we go again. If the plug had not been pulled on the old forum without provision for an archive, we'd have that to refer to. In addition to the great discoursees of fact, there was a lot of funny stuff that has been lost forever due to shortsightedness. Its a shame that you n00bs won't get to enjoy some of the ridiculous stuff that went on here. This organization has been on the web for over ten years and we only have a little over 2 years worth of evidence of that fact. Sad.

Okay, now to the point, since this has turned into this discussion. I would not have all of you youths ignorant of the definition of a Sports Car. I will spare you the history of this term, but suffice to say that the true icon of this is the MG TC. (Do a google image search - Charles can show you how.) In the post war era, the term "Sports Car" refers to a very specific configuration of car that does not have a moral value implied. Some cars are not Sports Cars by configuration, despite their performance. And some cars that fit the definition are woefully slow by modern standards. Nevertheless, it is true.

The definition is a published fact and is not up for debate.

A Sports Car is a lightweight, two-seat, rear-wheel-drive, car with no fixed roof, capable of being raced.
A GT is a Sports Car with a fixed roof.
A sedan is a car with four doors.

So:

GT - Viper GTS
GT - Corvette Z06/ZR1
GT - 911 Turbo/GT3/Cayman
GT - DBS
GT - F430/F360
GT - Exige (debatable as the roof is bolted on and "technically" removable)
GT - GTR (R35 ... has a back seat, but a small one)
GT - FD RX-7

Sedan - Mitsubishi Evo
Sedan - RX8 - (I had one, I know what it is.)
Sedan - Subaru STi

Sports Car - Miata
Sports Car - Honda S2000
Sports Car - MG B
Sports Car - Lotus 7
Sports Car - Corvette Convertible
Sports Car - Ferrari 166 Barchetta

Clearly an Evo is a sporting car. It is not a SPorts Car; it is a sedan. A Lotus Elise is a GT, because there is a fixed roof structure, though not all of it. All Targas and T-Top cars are considered GTs, assuming they fit the other parts of the definition. (ie: The Bandit's '77 'Bird is NOT a sports car.)

There is no moral high ground when a car is a Sports Car, nor is a car deficient whatever its classification.

I do not have time to fully delineate all of Charles fantastic examples at the moment, but I will be glad to issue a judge's ruling on any cars that anyone would like to know about, as I have time.

[TouringBubble]

Yeah, I was kidding about the Evo. It's a sedan. A fast-as-hell sedan, but still. No qualms there.

But, I must offer my rebuttal ...

A GT is a Sports Car with a fixed roof.

So, GT cars are technically sports cars soo ... all GT cars are sports cars, but all sports cars are not GT cars.

You said it. I was right. Sports cars can have fixed roofs as GT is a subset of the larger sports car class.

Also, using my list, you've misplaced some cars based on your strict definition ...

GT - 911 Turbo (some are AWD)
GT - Exige (what if you remove the roof?)
GT - GTR (seats 4, AWD)

[DAB21]

Geeeeesssss, Paul. Look what we've done! And the minivan isn't in any of these lists yet! I sure hope we haven't hurt it's feelings- it probably won't start next time you get in it.

You think they will still let her run in an autoX? I hope so. Maybe she is a "Sports GT Sedan" and they just haven't noticed yet. Does it have 7 doors? How many doors does it have? I have never really looked! They said it can only have 4-

[hondamaint]

Geeeeesssss, Paul. Look what we've done! And the minivan isn't in any of these lists yet! I sure hope we haven't hurt it's feelings- it probably won't start next time you get in it.

You think they will still let her run in an autoX? I hope so. Maybe she is a "Sports GT Sedan" and they just haven't noticed yet. Does it have 7 doors? How many doors does it have? I have never really looked! They said it can only have 4-

Yeah, what's up with that. I was kinda expecting the Odyssey to be listed on the list just below the DBS and above the F430/F360 ,like this
GT - Viper GTS
GT - Corvette Z06/ZR1
GT - 911 Turbo/GT3/Cayman
GT - DBS
GT - Odyssey turbo/LX
GT - F430/F360
GT - Exige (debatable as the roof is bolted on and "technically" removable)
GT - GTR (R35 ... has a back seat, but a small one)
GT - FD RX-7


Oh well shows what I know. I am taking my lap top to the race cage as soon as I post this to let the odyssey read this. It will be a shock I know but they need to know the truth.

[jimkana]

But, I must offer my rebuttal ...

So, GT cars are technically sports cars soo ... all GT cars are sports cars, but all sports cars are not GT cars.

You said it. I was right. Sports cars can have fixed roofs as GT is a subset of the larger sports car class.

Also, using my list, you've misplaced some cars based on your strict definition ...

GT - 911 Turbo (some are AWD)
GT - Exige (what if you remove the roof?)
GT - GTR (seats 4, AWD)

No, not quite.

I said that a GT is a Sports Car with a roof. I did that to save myself some typing, but I can see that that only confused you. So let me copy and paste and make this easier, if wordier.


A Sports Car is a lightweight, two-seat, rear-wheel-drive, car with no fixed roof, capable of being raced.
A GT is a lightweight, two-seat, rear-wheel-drive, car with a fixed roof(including Targas and T-Tops), capable of being raced.

GTs are NOT Sports Cars, but they are usually connected via shared design. Historically, a GT was a variant of a Sports Car or vice versa, but what is critical to know is that they are NOT the same by definition. The dividing line is the fixed roof. Grand Touring or Gran Turismo, referred to a car that could haul a couple comfortably to a vacation spot via Alpine roads in a safe an sporting manner. See the Ferrari 250GT Lusso, truly one of the most beautiful cars ever.
Enzo Ferrari knew this and you should too.



Further Corrections:

GT - 911 Turbo (some are AWD)
Correction - AWD includes the rear wheels, no? Still a GT

GT - Exige (what if you remove the roof?)
Correction - Exige has a fixed roof that is not removeable. ELISE has the targa roof that can be removed. Even with the Targa off, there is roof structure (not including the windshield header). Hence it is still a GT.

GT - GTR (seats 4, AWD)
Correction - AWD - see 911 turbo. 4 seats - that makes is a GT 2+2, a less common usage, but it is a class of GTs.