Future PDX dates

[zukitek]

I was in my yellow Mach 1. I had Earl Buckles as my instructor. I had to be the worst thing to ever go on track.

You didnt get black flagged did you ?

RR

[Raznkane]

No black flags. I didnt wreck my self or anybody else but, I did blow my clutch out on sunday when my instructor tried to get me to heel/toe.

Went in the hairpin, tried the heel/toe, ground a gear, came out of the hairpin and went to shift and couldnt get in any gear. Blew the facing off one side of the disc, day over.

It was a bad experience for my first track days but I learned from it and it has done nothing but get better every time since.

[chuck schultz]

I agree with those who say that an instructor should not worry about teaching fancy techniques on somebody's first track weekend, or maybe even any time they're in the Novice group. They should be working on safety, track procedures, the school line, braking zones, traffic courtesy, situational awareness, and just having a good time.

Things like shifting and shuffle steering should be practiced at lower speeds - on a back road or at an autocross, until they are second nature. The track's an unforgiving practice field.

[dr_phatcity]

Shuffle steering

shuffle steering???


I've been working to break myself of that habit for almost a year ... I can't get the steering inputs to be smooth when I shuffle.

-Jamie

[EWaugh]

Do you shuffling before turn in if your not. Otherwise come see me and we'll see what you're doing.

I taught shuffle to a novice once, but only because he was crossing his arms completly up and had no input left to give because his arms were locked. It kind of depends on the situation. Heel toe is not (generally) required to be safe, however

[dr_phatcity]

Do you shuffling before turn in if your not.

Huh? I don't understand your teachings ...

At any rate, I found that in the mini I can generate more than enough steering input without having to move my hands. Shuffling just adds an un-needed step.

My jeep on the other hand is quite different. If I'm not shuffling in the jeep I can't make a left or right turn.

[farrout]

IMHO, Heel and Toe is a technique that has somewhat been obviated with the new syncromesh transmissions that current cars have. Matching revs is just not a requirement anymore.

It can be a difficult technique to master particularly for a novice who is still trying to concentrate on the track and other more basic issues. It is even more difficult to do if the car's brake and throttle pedals are not aligned to support the technique (and many are not).

What is more important is learning when to brake and when to downshift as you enter a turn. Learning late or tail braking techniques is generally not a good thing to load upon a novice.

A novice has many things to learn first:

Where is the apex?
When do I brake and how hard?
When do I downshift?
When do I reapply the throttle?
How do I do all the above without upsetting the car?
Do I use all of the available track surface?
What speed should I be at?
Where do I set the car up on track for entry into a turn?
Where are my hands on the wheel (should be second nature but offtimes it is not)?
Proper seating position (sounds funny but I see many wrong positions)
Learning to countersteer when the rear end gets loose
Learning to drive off track in a straight line rather than attempt to save it and hit the wall
Understanding the difference between the two above situations

Doing a PDX in the rain is really good because to amplifies your mistakes and really teaches you how to properly brake, apply throttle, and car control.

[farrout]

Shuffle steering is one technique.

Some instructors in my past did not like it. THere is another technique of setting your hands in advance of a turn such that while in the turn the hands do not lose grip on the wheel. I.E., approaching a right turn, drop your right hand low on the wheel such that in the turn the right hand only rotates to the top of the wheel but does not shuffle or lose grip on the wheel..

[Raznkane]

I did want to say this in case a first timer reads my comments. I learned after the fact that you can say NO to a situation like that. I trusted him and figured his judgment was better than mine but it didnt make me be ready.

Craig, I ran 2 days in the rain at Road Atlanta back in Nov and it was the best days I have ever had on track. Had a great instructor and learned a bunch from him. Saw a few cars messed up but only 2 sounded like driver error due to water.

[EWaugh]

Shuffle steering is one technique.

Some instructors in my past did not like it. THere is another technique of setting your hands in advance of a turn such that while in the turn the hands do not lose grip on the wheel. I.E., approaching a right turn, drop your right hand low on the wheel such that in the turn the right hand only rotates to the top of the wheel but does not shuffle or lose grip on the wheel..

That is the way I drive...untill I have to start shuffling quickly the other way anyway.

[zukitek]

I would like to add a couple of small unmentioned facts that I have observed concerning classification of a driver I.E.Novice,intermediate ,advanced etc...

I have instructed several drivers at Barbers in the novice group who signed up for the novice group voluntarily who did so only because they had no prior experience on THAT particular track.These same guys may have 8 -10 hours of experience at VIR or RA and are simply venturing out of their usual home track radius by doing a day at Barbers .

The other thing I have seen once or twice with PBOC in particular is that they also have races.These racers potentially may have driving age sons or daughters in the HPDE groups .I have instructed a few of these racer's children in the racer's race cars in the novice and intermediate groups .I only mention PBOC by name because they are the ones most familiar to me but im sure similar applies to ANY group that puts on events in a similar format..Typically,these drivers get signed off and bumped up on Sunday morning at the drivers meeting due to the fact that track specific stuff such as optimal lines and braking zones are all they usually lack.That doesnt take long.

FWIW,these items can contribute to some very large speed differentials and varying skill levels especially when the weekend is split between racing and HPDE.

RR

[zukitek]

No black flags. I didnt wreck my self or anybody else but, I did blow my clutch out on sunday when my instructor tried to get me to heel/toe.

Went in the hairpin, tried the heel/toe, ground a gear, came out of the hairpin and went to shift and couldnt get in any gear. Blew the facing off one side of the disc, day over.

It was a bad experience for my first track days but I learned from it and it has done nothing but get better every time since.

Downshifts and upshifts can be missed by even the most seasoned driver .I wouldnt feel too bad about it .I have done it with the same end ...the thing that helped me master it was to get used to driving that way all the time.If youre coming off of the interstate on an offramp ,go ahead and bring the car down through the gears while practicing blipping the throttle and disengaging the clutch and braking at the same time .After a while.. it will become second nature ,or at least it did for me .

On the flip side.I also left the track that very day with a massive failure of my clutch disk.I had a metal fatigue thing happen to mine .Anyways .Downshifts in the braking zones are crucial .IF you are not comfortable with them ...dont !It is for sure one of the easiest ways to end up off track if you miss.You dont slow down as you anticipate ,you are distracted by getting it back in gear ,and you are having to do all of this when you should be turning in and aiming for apex and trackout .I will say that Sunday is usually when _I_ start trying to start teaching the student more intermediate skills like that FWIW.

RR