Future PDX dates

[chuck schultz]

I've run twice with NASA's HPDE-1/2 combined sessions, and once I've let a few folks by my slow car, I've had open track for multiple laps. I've also been stuck behind folks slower in corners, but that can happen with any group, including the time I was stuck behind a Z06 at Road Atlanta for a couple laps in an SCCA PDX.

Maybe the PBOC groups look faster because their pricing keeps real newbies out. You're more likely to see folks with at least one event under their belts, I'll bet.

I do the acknowledging wave a lot, and it makes me feel better, at least, figuring they're less likely to get excited.

I was a little embarrassed the last time out, because I missed the rule NASA had in the lower groups about all passes being on the right. I was wondering why folks were balking when I pointed left at 5 at Road A. I was on the curbing, and they wanted me to move back left before giving the point. By the time I drove way over there, we were halfway down the straight. ;^) Once I figured that out, I was throwing away the corner to be in position left for an early point, since the car won't accelerate up the hill, anyway.

[EWaugh]

That's not quite as embarrasing as the time when you spun under my white/waving yellow at Barber's. I'll admit that I should have had 5 backing me up with a standing, but it was still funny. Of course right as the FFer got half way to my mechanical he put his hand to his ear, gave the mechanical the wait a minute sign, sprinted back to the truck, and hauled ass. Turns out there was a fire at 8.

I hate it when clubs do that kind of thing. kinda retarded.

[chuck schultz]

I'm beginning to believe that 5 should almost always mirror 6. I don't think anybody before you was showing white, either, which might've helped. However, I've spun 3 times on 3 different tracks, and every time was trailing-throttle oversteer. I really need to resist the temptation to snap the throttle shut like a light switch going off.

Their argument for always-right is that it's easier to remember if it's the same, everywhere. There is some merit to that idea.

One club policy that kills me, even when I'm on a corner, because I have to police it, is when they allow passing in the faster, second portion of the back straight at Barber, but not by the museum, where folks are going a lot slower. It's 400 feet shorter, according to the map, but I'll bet there's as much time to pass between 9 and 10 as between 11 and 12 for most cars.

Oh, and Atlanta SCCA PDXes don't let you touch the curbing, 'cause it skeers the instructors.

[EWaugh]

But sometimes you have to work harder to make someone pass on one side versus the other. I agree with the retards who do that. I kind of made a point to mention to the head guy(s) with PBOC that the higher classes at least shouldn't be limited to that, and they didn't.

I haven'y been to RA but I doubt that have 60 degree nubering style curbs. I like for my students to touch them a little just so that I know he's using the track and he knows where his wheels are.

[zukitek]

From comments on other forums, it sounds like PBOC can have people who are aggressive in traffic. Have you seen this at all?

Define "aggresive in traffic"....

I have only attended PBOC events at Barbers.They do a spring and a fall weekend every year.I have instructed the last 3 years for them at the spring and fall events.

They are actually very ,very conservative (on the side of caution) .They are the most structured and organized club that I run with each year .Any idiot that said they are disorganized is not dealing with the same club I have dealt with.They always have a packet for you with vinyl numbers ,you know who your instructor is for the weekend from the start.The schedule is adhered to no matter what .In short...PBOC is in my top 3.

I have no experience with PCA but my perception is that if you dont _own_ a Porsche ...you need not apply.You will get bumped at any given moment.

Peachtree BMW is solid ...a well put together club and a well put together program.I would do any of their DEs that i could afford.

NASA is not so good lately.

Heart of Dixie BMWCCA is good too .

Chin is good .

RR

[VroomGrrl]

Time for the know-nuthin noob here to chime in -

PBOC - all I know of them is the event I worked with them this past November. They were VERY well organized. I did not get the idea that they had any focus on total track noobs - they seemed to have a pretty experienced field of drivers. The drivers there seemed to get a lot out of it, and I didn't hear any complaints. I saw lots of familiar faces out there, and made some great new friends. Got an awesome ride-along, too! But I have not driven with them.

AL-PCA - credential issues. Really? Hopefully since you are comfortable "sharing" such info, you will be as comfortable sharing all the facts about it right here, too. If not, please PM me with the details. FYI I'm a member of that club and I'm planning to do my first big DE weekend with them (Mar 7-8). If there is an issue with their credentials, I'd sure like to know about it before I pony up my fees. PCA generally has the reputation of being snobby because you have to have a Porsche VIN to join. I have a Porsche so this does not bother me They tend to coddle their newbies more than most clubs doing DEs, which is why I chose them for my first full-weekend DE. Plus - Barber!

NASA - aww come on you guys. What is the problem with NASA? NASA-SE has gotten an impressive program going in the short time they've been around (3 years?). On a national level, they are well-respected for their DE-TT-to racing HPDE program. I know there have been some complaints about amount of seat time on some of their weekends in NASA-SE. As I've said here before, I perceived this as a function of their attempt to pack too much into the time available.

The only reason I'm not doing my DE with them to start out is the way they run HPDE 1 and 2 in the same group, and I want to start out in a more "protective" setting for newbies. But I'm working as many events with them as I can because they have the incentive deal where you can work 2 weekends/do one "free." I'm looking forward to getting a bit of seat-time under my belt so I will feel ready to do DE in their mixed-group format next season. In the interest of full disclosure, I'm a member of NASA-SE also.

Having all the event info as you posted it was very helpful! The parenthenticals have certainly spawned some good conversation, but I'm not sure how fair it is to post comments (yours or "others") in a public forum about a group having credential problems and not providing the source or details for that kind of a statement. Frankly, I have a hard time believing it - Barber is persnickety enough that I can't see them having a group with a "troubled" reputation doing events out there. More info, please!

[dr_phatcity]

Hmm.. there I go again

It seems my posts have stirred something of a hornets nest ... but in reality, that's a good thing.

For the last year, I've been fumbling around trying to figure out how to get involved in track days. Frankly, it's too expensive and the potential consequences too great to risk going to events that you aren't sure are going to be run well. As a beginner with no experience, it's even more intimidating. As a result, I was left with trolling around on various forums, hearing advice from strangers in an effort to give me at least some direction.

Trying to get as much discussion going as possible, I posted the future dates I could put together on my own time. Even figuring out when these events are going to be run is REALLY challenging.

The few comments I put into the schedule probably should have been introduced more clearly, as, "hey guys, I heard this ... what do you think."

However, given the fact that information on these events is a total PITA to come by ... I don't regret the posts at all. It might not be fair to post rumors, but frankly that is all I have to go by. If people from this forum can share better (and more trusted) insights, then I very much welcome the input.

Last year, I would have loved to have heard half of the information from this thread alone.

To that end,
It would seem that overall the people from this forum have had a good experience with PBOC and AL PCA. Though perhaps PBOC has fewer total newbies due to price and may run more quickly on average. (Though suggestions that they are disorganized appear unfounded)

Our experience with AL PCA has been a bit limited due to their inclusion rules. I very much look forward hearing what our spy on the inside (Vroom) hears about AL PCA credentials etc., because I would VERY much like to run with them. (and, I did not get in touch with them over the issue as I promised I would)

My apologies if my posting of partial, unsubstantiated information was misleading ..

-Jamie

[VroomGrrl]

Hey Jamie,

First, I did contact an officer of PCA when nothing further appeared in this thread about the credentials issue, and they are fully credentialed. They do their events at Barber and TGPR.

Like you, I am brand spankin new to track driving, and I get all the info I can, and pick and choose where to spend my limited track $$ based on what I can find out. Seems you and I got some opposite info about AL-PCA. I zeroed in on them as a good place for me because they run a novice-only group (as long as enough show up) where most of the other groups throw total novices in with more advanced run groups from the start. SCCA also runs a novice-only group, and they had a 1-day last year, which was perfect for me at the end of last season.

I thought it was interesting that AL PCA, for their Barber events, requires that you have done one prior event under a sanctioned body before you can do an event with them at Barber. I checked to be sure and my 1-day with SCCA at TGPR will satisfy this requirement (YAY).

Too bad there's not a "DE REVIEW" site easily available anywhere. We are all left to ask around and make our decisions based on what we can find out. I do appreciate you getting all the dates together & sharing here what you've been able to find out about schedules, etc. I'm looking forward to a fun year full of VROOM and I'll look forward to seeing you out there - somewhere!

Kathy

[Raznkane]

Jamie had some good points though, and I will speak of my PBOC experience briefly. I did my first track days last March with them, no experience at all first time on track. The class room consisted of about 10 minutes with them going over a track map. That might be fine for an experienced driver but for me it was not much help. Then due to low car counts in some classes the novice group was combined with intermediate and I believe advanced group. I learned from this, how to point by and using my mirrors which was good. I didnt have time to learn the lines very well which was bad. It was a very nerve racking 2 days and after it was over I wondered if this was what I really wanted to do. I'm still here though.

I am not knocking PBOC, but from my experience I would not recommend them for a first timer. I will run with them again though.

[VroomGrrl]

Jamie had some good points though, and I will speak of my PBOC experience briefly. I did my first track days last March with them, no experience at all first time on track. The class room consisted of about 10 minutes with them going over a track map. That might be fine for an experienced driver but for me it was not much help. Then due to low car counts in some classes the novice group was combined with intermediate and I believe advanced group. I learned from this, how to point by and using my mirrors which was good. I didnt have time to learn the lines very well which was bad. It was a very nerve racking 2 days and after it was over I wondered if this was what I really wanted to do. I'm still here though.

I am not knocking PBOC, but from my experience I would not recommend them for a first timer. I will run with them again though.

You are so right, and this is exactly what I am trying to avoid, at least to the extent that I can. Even groups that are known for running novices alone will combine driver groups on the fly, depending on who actually shows up, drivers & instructors, and how they break out by experience.

There was a big enough turn-out of novices at the PDX this club offered last October that they were able to run N1/N2 groups - mixed experience, but all self-described novice drivers. I was at the back of the pack and that was nervewracking enough!

I realize that I may choose certain events based on the novice-grouping set-up and show up only to be mixed in with more advanced drivers. That seems to happen pretty often, so whatever happens, happens. But to the extent I can choose events where it's less likely for that to happen, that's my plan.

[chuck schultz]

Just remember that, even in an all-novice group, you will be running with cars of widely varying capability, as well as different levels of driver resolve.

As a result, no matter who you run with, or what you're driving, you'll probably do a fair amount of passing and being passed. One of my first times on track, while still in an all-novice group, I had guys in a GTO and a Viper running laps fast enough that I was pointing one or the other of them by almost every lap.

Just try to learn to expect that, and have fun watching them run away. You'll be one of them, to the next novices, soon enough.

[VroomGrrl]

AL PCA says their DEs are now open to all

While I had his attention, I asked the DE Chair (or whatever, Tom Fleming) about the club's policy regarding non-members registering for their DEs. Here is what he said:

"YES, if your car will pass tech, then by all means. our fields are filled with corvette's, bmw's, cooper's, lambo's, ferrari's, ford gt's and so on. yes we are an equal opportunity club, we will even let mustangs in. *** we don't even open the registration early for club members, as other clubs sometimes do. our registration opens for all and on the same date."

So that looks like good news for anybody who's stayed away thinking they would not be able to register, be wait-listed, or bumped. If that was the case before, it is no longer.

Anybody with any other questions should feel free to contact Tom - I have never met him in person but he was very helpful via email: tfleming930 AT bellsouth DOT net.

Registration for the March 7-8 DE at Barber opens 1/15. See ala.pca.org for add'l info.

[EWaugh]

Were you David's student in the white Mustang?

I'd love to embarass Porsche drivers (pilots), but they want too much money from instructors for my liking.

Jamie had some good points though, and I will speak of my PBOC experience briefly. I did my first track days last March with them, no experience at all first time on track. The class room consisted of about 10 minutes with them going over a track map. That might be fine for an experienced driver but for me it was not much help. Then due to low car counts in some classes the novice group was combined with intermediate and I believe advanced group. I learned from this, how to point by and using my mirrors which was good. I didnt have time to learn the lines very well which was bad. It was a very nerve racking 2 days and after it was over I wondered if this was what I really wanted to do. I'm still here though.

I am not knocking PBOC, but from my experience I would not recommend them for a first timer. I will run with them again though.

[Raznkane]

I was in my yellow Mach 1. I had Earl Buckles as my instructor. I had to be the worst thing to ever go on track.

[EWaugh]

I've heard about worse