A Proposal for PDX and Track Trials

[chuck schultz]

Atlanta has the base to be able to supoort a high turnout in their own members alone

With all due respect, you haven't been to many track days at BMP. The same club had a bigger turnout in Birmingham, last summer, IIRC. People come from very far outside the local area for these events - just like club racers.

I know that the entry fee for such a TT would be too high for some. The intent of that part of the proposal is to provide a place for those who always ask "what about my car?" when there's a PDX announced. Some racers might come and run, too, to get in some track-specific practice or tuning. If no TTers want to play, more time for everybody else - maybe adding a second group at one of the levels.

There is a tremendous, growing business of presenting track day events, and SCCA has decided to be part of that. Our members deserve to have an opportunity to participate in as many different SCCA programs as possible.

A lot of the dedicated track day fans do run pretty hard, but experienced track staff and a good steward can keep 'em reined in, by enforcing passing rules. Even pro racers can play safely with others in a track day environment, if the club is consistent in enforcing the rules.

[Welacey]

If you can make it work it would be great, but from a TT standpoint, more money and less track time ain't cool.

[zukitek]

If I may ...without wearing the forum Moderator badge or the referee stripes ..lemee do a few introductions .

Dr Phat ..Jamie McKinnel M.D.? Jamie is was one of ALSCCAs solo event chairs on more than one occasion..meet FVEE***Mr Mark Rothermel,TVRSCCA RE and a fellow car nut and track day junkie as well as Im sure all of the credentials that you would expect..solo chair ,tt chair,race chair,trophy chic ,ETC.You guys get the picture

.I think we all want the same thing.... we just havn't all hit the same page yet .

It's obvious that differant format is needed for differant venues .We just need to focus on how to approach SEDIV about putting it into action.

RR
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[chuck schultz]

more money and less track time ain't cool.

That's true of all forms of motorsports. However, this mixed-format type of event might be the best bang for the buck you'll ever get at a major venue, at the same price the track day folks are paying. If you want to preserve the all-TT format, 40 entrants would have to pay $1000 each to run at BMP or Road A.

[zukitek]

That's true of all forms of motorsports. However, this mixed-format type of event might be the best bang for the buck you'll ever get at a major venue, at the same price the track day folks are paying. If you want to preserve the all-TT format, 40 entrants would have to pay $1000 each to run at BMP or Road A.

Well put Chuck.

RR

[FVee90]

RR
You forgot I'm a racing diabetic. Chuck understood on other clubs using Barber and having a high attendence but I have seen and know some of the $$$ that flows from BMW and Porsche club members. After hearing of the rent per day at Barber I didn't think there was anyway a TT Level 3 would ever come to Barber unless the nationwide TT was bigger and Barber was used for a National Championship. I think one thing that needs to be done at any level is looking at sponsorship of the events (another from the easier said than done column). Sorry to be a pest but I wanted to speak mainly on behalf of TTers who are the red headed stepchild of SCCA but one of the funnest bunch to play with and get more out of a turd than most.

[jatow]

...and get more out of a turd than most.

Disturbing....but well put!

[EWaugh]

From what I've read in the rulebook there isn't anything to talk to SEDIV about, as long as we can get a couple of safety's on board. If we can combine the adv/inst group we can run two TT groups, wings and cars, and end up with only one extra group. We run TT just like the rest only with the transponders.

[chuck schultz]

some of the $$$ that flows from BMW and Porsche club members.

I tried to avoid saying it on an SCCA forum, but I'm talking about NASA, not a marque club. Here's a group of snapshots, either HPDE or TT folks in these - http://www.flickr.com/photos/k4cay/s...7605591643835/

There are some high-dollar cars in the bunch, but quite a few in my range, too.

[zukitek]

Lets refrain from using NASA as an example ...because they are well on their way to being a flash in the pan among DE folks and they are just a couple of fatalities away from having NO time trial'/time attack program.They are the absolute opposite of SCCA safety wise...they have just been lucky so far,and frankly speaking ,totally irresponsible for allowing cars to compete at some of the venues they frequent without requiring more safety equipment.

Obviously they can get entrys because no other club in their right minds will let them run those cars in that lack of prep in a timed event.

DE folks are quickly finding that NASA will screw them over if need be .

However,I do see your point Chuck.The entrys are possible.

RR

[chuck schultz]

I think you're way over the top, here, Ricky.

I'm talking about the NASA HPDE program, specifically levels 1-3, as an example of how it is possible to get enough entries to break even, without having to attract a bunch of high-dollar non-driving marque types. I have specific information about their entry levels, so that was the example I used. I don't know what the entry numbers are for PBOC or Chin, but I assume they are at least breaking even, as well, or they wouldn't keep coming back.

As for the NASA TT program, it's considered another driver ed level, similar to the SCCA Level 2 Club Trials program. You might want to read our own rules before you point fingers at another club.

[zukitek]

I don't think I'm way over the top at all ,Chuck,nor am I trying to debate you .I would probably lose .I just have a strong opinion about some of the safety issues and policies that NASA has in some areas.Its just ,to me,NASA time trials groups are too loose on the safety requirements for the cars and the drivers .

I was attempting to suggest that with that added flexibility ...came a few more entrants who could afford to muster up a pretty fast car,drive it moderately all the way up to fantastically but either didn't want or couldn't afford to spring for the safety stuff such as cages,firesuits and such as that .Its apples and oranges.NASA=apples,SCCA=oranges.

RR

[chuck schultz]

My first sentence made you miss the point I got to eventually - the SCCA Club Trials program looks a lot like the NASA TT program, so they're not doing anything too different from what's legal with a Level 2 SCCA TT sanction.

I think the majority of SCCA folks agree with you, though, since not too many Regions are running any Club Trials events. However, the national office (and our insurance carrier) seem to think that it's possible to run timed track events safely with what are basically Solo safety requirements.

[zukitek]

Well folks I just got back from Jeckyll Island and things went fairly well by large.

The consensus among the TT powers that be in SEDIV agrees that point by passing formats in level 3 is not a big issue and can be done .

SCRSCCA has scheduled an 8 hour enduro and a PDX/level 3 track trials event on August 15th/16th weekend .Im curious to see how they do with it .I spoke with their RE and he says they plan to do transponder sessions with point by passing for TT.

RR

[chuck schultz]

point by passing formats in level 3 is not a big issue and can be done .

This will be a challenge to schedule and manage, at first, but should result in more track time.

SCRSCCA has scheduled an 8 hour enduro and a PDX/level 3 track trials event on August 15th/16th weekend

This will be at Carolina Motorsports Park http://www.google.com/maps?f=q&sourc...h&z=15&iwloc=A in Kershaw, SC.

It'll be hard for some folks to justify traveling for a one-day event, though. That's the best argument against my idea of running a PDX at Barber on Labor Day.