Entry fees. You want what?!!

[speedturn]

I paid about $800 for my HSR Mitty entry with test day, and I paid $800 for my SVRA Indy entry without the extra test day. Typical Sunday vintage main races are shorter than SCCA main races. Vintage races frequently have business sponsors to pay for the Saturday night parties; and we don't have big sponsors like that. If you can find a sponsor willing to pay for our party, we would appreciate it.

Barber is a very expensive track to rent, and they insist on big $$$ up front. Whether we make a little money, or lose a lot of money because of withdrawals due to bad weather is a big gamble every year.

Please remember all the years that this race lost money before you ask to reduce our income by cutting entry fees. Our small regions cannot afford for a big event like this to lose money.

[JohnW8]

I paid about $800 for my HSR Mitty entry with test day, and I paid $800 for my SVRA Indy entry without the extra test day. Typical Sunday vintage main races are shorter than SCCA main races. Vintage races frequently have business sponsors to pay for the Saturday night parties; and we don't have big sponsors like that. If you can find a sponsor willing to pay for our party, we would appreciate it.

Barber is a very expensive track to rent, and they insist on big $$$ up front. Whether we make a little money, or lose a lot of money because of withdrawals due to bad weather is a big gamble every year.

Please remember all the years that this race lost money before you ask to reduce our income by cutting entry fees. Our small regions cannot afford for a big event like this to lose money.

I do understand the expense involved with Barber. I understand it very well. We have lost money in the past with wasteful spending on big Saturday night banquets that were unnecessary and expensive. Like $12,000 worth of Roast beef and Stella Artrois expensive. Once the club cut that party from the budget the clubs made some profit. I just believe to make a race more attractive you need to incentivize and add more cars in the paddock instead of raising fees on those in attendance.
I look at the previous years profits if any, a portion could be put back into the event in the form of reduced entry fees. It's a crazy idea but maybe it has some traction. Withdrawals can be covered by withholding a percentage of the entry fee. That's reasonable. It's an expensive track after all.

A couple years ago I left early due to rain and not having rain tires. I left without bitching about my entry fee because I knew the club would need it to help cover the bills.
I looked at it as paying $200 to not destroy my car in the rain.

I really don't want to be "that guy" but I feel the need to speak my mind.

[farrout]

The above are all good thoughts.

First - costs at Barber have gone up this year. Track rental, worker lunches, etc all went up. We are also trying to do a bit more for the workers than we did last year. Our budget is still tight.

Second - The Saturday race does count for points and also as a qualifying time for Sunday. Yes, this is the new SARRC/SECS format. The time saved on Sat by the shorter race was added back into the TT and RR sessions. We are also trying hard to not go over 5pm and save the extra money it costs.

Third - TT on Sat is scheduled for 50 minutes of track time. At the one day TT rate, this is a bargain. We did give the TT guys a cost break on a track time comparison with the RR guys (RR guys should be complaining not TT guys). Since most of the TT guys only do one or maybe 2 sessions on Sunday, I arranged the schedule to slant TT time toward Sat and give time back to the RR guys on Sunday. I invite you to look at how many TT guys ran the 3rd TT session last year (Hint - Group 2 had 2 cars as I remember and we combined Groups 1 and 2)

A lot of thought was put into pricing and the schedules. Whether or not you all agree with the outcome, we did attempt to make it better. I think I can say that if this race loses money like some of the prior years did, TVR will not be back.

Finally -
I invite anyone who wants to be part of the planning process (which was completed already over the last 7 months) for next year to volunteer and be active. Pure customers get to pay their fee and show up to an event that others have given a substantial amount of their time to make happen. If you have never been an Event Chairman or a Race Chair, then you have no idea of the time and effort that is involved to make a race successful. TVR and AL have precious few individuals who actively participated in the planning and execution of either the 2013 or 2014 Barber race.

There is still plenty to do getting ready for the race and doing thing on the weekend. See Nick Vagner who is your AL Race Leader to volunteer.

[JohnW8]

Thanks for the feedback Craig.
I did notice on the schedule there was more time given to the TT drivers on Saturday
and I understood why. Remember, I have been an Event Chairman.

Thanks for all your hard work.

[Chuck Baader]

Craig...been there during the first three races held at Barber, so I understand the process. However, other that you, how many SEDIV racers actually participated in the process? The IT racers are the core of the entries in SEDIV and those are the racers that need to be considered, since IT is a "budget" classification for most of us. The cost of the TT is, imho, out of line with other venues.

BTW, what is the daily budget allocation for Barber now? In the past it was 17.5K.

[e30Racer]

What do you think the cost of the TT should be Chuck?

[Chuck Baader]

I think is should be in line with a normal SEDIV TT.

[farrout]

Chuck - There is no "normal" SEDIV TT. Prices vary by track and the individual circumstances of the event. (e.g., CMP was cheap because it was a one day and the track was free). Prices for our TTs at TGPR ($275)cannot be compared to Barber since the track rental et al cost is so significantly different (factor of ~5) and we only do TT entries at TGPR. Barber is both RR and TT thus it is like comparing apples and oranges. If we were to calculate Barber TT on a cost per track minute basis, the cost for RR and TT could arguably be the same.

Yes, a TT at Barber is higher than the other tracks which cost a lot less to rent. As I explained in an earlier post, the TT guys are getting a good deal. It is all a balancing act. If we were to lower the TT fees, then we would have to increase the SECS/SARRC fees. 2013 was a good year, but it did not rain - which was a huge cause for the previous Barber races losing money. In 2014, who knows what will happen.

If the TT guys do not want to run at Barber, then they will not come and we will not do the TT there. But I can absolutely tell you that without the TT, the Barber race is not financially viable. Do not tell me that ECR can make up the difference as we have plenty of data for that premise from the past Barber races.

I do not know how you calculate the $17.5 daily cost for Barber. If you only include track rental, ambulance, wreckers, and the incidentals, then the daily cost is close to that. If you want to talk all the necessary expenses, then the daily cost goes up to ~$30K a day.

Both ALSCCA and TVR were actively represented in the planning for Barber. That is at least 4 SEDIV Full Competition licensed drivers, at least 6 active TT drivers, and a few licensed workers. I know that the race was also discussed at both TVR and ALSCCA meetings.

Chuck - If you want to be involved, I will gladly discuss turning over the Event Chairmanship to you for next year.

[JohnW8]

Before anyone start s getting feelings hurt let me say that since I started this thread, I don't have a problem with the SARRC entry fee nor do I have an issue with the TT fee. However I cannot afford to do both events. My gripe was there was no option for a combined discounted entry fee. That is all. Move along. Nothing to see here.

[e30Racer]

I would like to say "thank you john w8" for bringing up your questions and concerns. As you and many other people know who have been involved in planning events, one of the hardest parts is getting feedback from racers. We always want to make the event better. We always want to make it as affordable and fun as we can. And we genuinely take into consideration peoples questions and concerns. We can't always accommodate every person's request, but we try.

[DelanieC]

The TT seems like a good deal to me. It's way cheaper than a track day at Barber.

However a discounted TT entry for drivers already signed up to race seems like a good way to bring in some extra cash, especially if the TT groups aren't expected to fill up.

Thanks for the hard work guys! I'm really looking forward to it and if there's anything I can help with, please let me know.

[speedturn]

The early in the morning TT group was quite full Saturday morning last year.

[farrout]

At Barber 2013, the 79 TT entries were the highest seen in SEDIV for at least the last 15 years.
• 37 drivers took advantage of the one day rate.
• 52 drivers held Competition licenses.
• 43 drivers entered both the Regional and the TT.
All of this seemed to indicate that the practice time concept was a huge success. TT drivers and Club Racers spoke in support of the new format. The addition of the TT was the most significant factor in making the Barber race a financial success.

I can only hope that we see a similar response in 2014. For 2014, the TT format was changed from 2013 in response to a lot of driver comments. On Saturday, there are 2 TT sessions (Groups A-C) before Qual and one between Qual and the Sat race. TT Time was also increased on Saturday making the one day option more cost effective than before.

Driver and worker comments are always welcome.

[Chuck Baader]

Sounds good to me.