Barber News et al

[e30Racer]

That's a great idea from Bobby! Now were are we going to get the money from?!?!? JK

I think we could have open passing and hope that soon we can.

What is the difference between Pro-IT and running in an IT class?

[JohnW8]

What is the difference between Pro-IT and running in an IT class?

Pro-IT is a 40-45 minute race, usually only 1 race per weekend and they race for money.
They pay a higher entry fee and get the prize money from that. The more car running Pro-IT the more money in the pot. Plain ol' IT is a 20-30 minute race, usually 2 per weekend and racing for trophies or bragging rights.

[FVee90]

Actually in other areas there is open passing at TT events however those are areas that are very involved and experienced in Level 1 and 2. SEDIV has more experience in Level 3 and 4 due to the Solo 1 days. Several areas that had open passing are now trying to whoa up a little depending on the venue. It is basically easy to post wants on the forums but you better do so work and back it up with experience - you really don't want to mess with a bad incident due to inexperience.

[DelanieC]

John, It was a Saturday.

[chuck schultz]

Re: passing for TT - NASA puts every TT car on course at the same time - I've seen 40+ at once, with passing everywhere, no point required, but recommended. It works because the drivers use good discipline. They show up on time, ready to go, gridded by previous times. They go out under full course yellow, with the fast guys holding back to bunch up the field single file before the first timed lap. This allows the fast ones to get as many traffic-free laps as possible before catching someone else. There are very few passes made, because they're already gridded fastest to slowest. Also, they realize that they can take their time making a safe pass, because they realize that neither the overtaking car nor the overtaken one will have their best time on the lap the pass happens. TT sessions are shorter than DE sessions, too, since most just want enough laps to get up to temp, get the best lap possible, and then retire.

Re: the up-front money. If Atlanta Region doesn't want to risk their bank account further, maybe another nearby Region(s) would like to step up and help?

I'd love to see more endurance racing going on in the Division. An ECR, plus a Restricted Regional (or two) with only ECR classes the same weekend would give those racers plenty of bang for their travel bucks, as well as lots of time for TT and PDX. Also, IT category racers aren't afraid of wilting in the rain, so they're less likely to drop out.

Call it the Minors Tour, and trademark the name before the national office can. ;^)

[chuck schultz]

John, It was a Saturday.

I think that weekend was split with Z-Nationals.

[e30Racer]

Sorry, when I was mentioning a PDX/CT/TT never having done open passing, I was referring to SEDIV SCCA specifically. Yes, NASA and PBOC have open passing DE/TT groups.

What regions do most of the ECR racers come from? Maybe those regions are more likely to help put on the race. (Let me guess, Atlanta is the main region?)

[JohnW8]

There's another benefit from a combined ECR/Restricted Regional/PDX/TT and that is additional opportunity for multi driver cars. The way the economy is and everyone wanting to save where they can this would be a great opportunity. 1 car could run the sprint race then the ECR for 2 drivers and then the car could be TTed or PDXed as payment for a trustworthy crew member or 2. 1 car could serve 5 driver entries.

Mark, The ECR crowd, I been told, are big in Florida and Georgia but can be used for anyone that want an extra 1.5 hours seat time at the track.

[farrout]

I think it's a TT rule to have designated passing zones. As far as I know there aren't any SCCA regions doing open passing for TT.

TTR talks about point by passing. SEDIV has limited passing to "on the straights" for safety reasons. Mostly because we mostly have newbies for F&C. If we are paying FBF for professional F&C, it might change the discussion a bit. In a survey I took a couple of years ago, most of the TT drivers did not want open passing.

Washington DC has done open passing with a point-by at Summit Point for a number of events but they use professional corner workers.

[farrout]

Sorry, when I was mentioning a PDX/CT/TT never having done open passing, I was referring to SEDIV SCCA specifically. Yes, NASA and PBOC have open passing DE/TT groups.

What regions do most of the ECR racers come from? Maybe those regions are more likely to help put on the race. (Let me guess, Atlanta is the main region?)

NASA does have open passing but the number of incidents is rather high. Definitely more than SCCA would tolerate.

PCA has its 1313 rule. Cause a metal to metal contact and you are thrown out of PCA club racing for a year.

[farrout]

SEDIV TT committee must approve all supps for PDX/TT events. Idk what all it takes to get them approved, if it must be unanimous, or what.

You are partially correct. SEDIV TT Comm does not approve Supps per se but has had an opinion in the past on some issues.

Supps/schedule are sent to SCCA National for approval and Sanction provided. Before National does that, they get the Division's TTAC Representative to approve them. The SEDIV TTAC Rep should be and is certainly aware of the opinions of the TT Committee.

SEDIV is unique within SCCA in that we have a TT Committee that has been responsible for the Level 3/4 TT events in SEDIV. Many safety related issues have been discussed within the Committee. There has been discussion on open passing and the Committee (with one exception) has generally not been in favor. The issues have to do with TT and PDX and all are concerned with safety.

I have yet to see that open passing is the one issue that will suddenly generate triple our TT entries.

[farrout]

I cannot see a dedicated PDX/TT succeeding at Barber. The number of entries required (160-200) has not been proven to be available.

At the risk of being crass, I have not seen too many people from either TVR or AL step up to the task of the administrative job necessary to put on a TT/PDX event. Both JW8 and I can talk at length about that particular issue and our experiences with it. Try being the Event Chairman or Registrar or Chief Driving Instructor or Worker Chief and you will understand what I am saying.

Also at the risk of being crass, neither TVR nor AL is currently capable of putting on a PDX with drivers in the 100s. Hell, we barely managed to staff enough instructors for the 19 PDXers we had at TGPR. Most of those were TT guys who gave their time.

I do believe that a TT combined with a double SARRC (or Rational) at Barber could be successful. Yes, a No Frills approach is necessary. The TT is a money maker given that the track is already rented for the Road Races. TT only costs insurance (~$15 per car) and TT Trophy fund ($10 per car) plus a $50 sanction fee. The 2 day TT with maybe 3-4 sessions per group per day is needed to draw in the usual TTers. 15-20 Road racers will use the TT time as practice time because it saves them from having to be there on Friday.

Yes, a TT would have to cost more than we are used to charging but that is the cost of the track. Even the Road Racers might have to pay a bit more than they have in the past.

Yes, a No Frills approach is necessary to make Barber financially successful. What is important to the drivers? I respectfully submit that it is track time and the racing rather than a dinner or a trophy (even thought the picture trophies are great). Maybe use FBF at $90 a day each and let the paid workers provide their own lunch/dinner. Pay the SCCA workers on the same scale, etc. (would have to do the math to see if this works financially).

I sincerely hope that ATL/ALA can come out on top with their discussions with Barber. I hope to see a SARRC continue at Barber on Labor Day. I hope that we can add a TT to the weekend.

[e30Racer]

Thanks for all of the input Craig! You're experience is greatly appreciated!!!

I agree with you that having an open passing group is not suddenly going to make any significant impact on the number of TT entrants. I think the idea was that if we did have one run group like that, would it appeal to the road racers more? In my opinion, it wouldn't really make a difference. They use the time for practice and I would think they aren't worried about that guy holding me up in one or two corners.

I agree with you again that there is NO WAY we (ALSCCA) could hold a PDX/TT-only weekend out at Barber. We would have to double, probably triple the number of participants from our BEST event last year. I don't see that happening.

If something happened where the weekend was a PDX/TT/ECR/Limited Regional (IT), what do you think the response of the classes being "left-out" would be? Since you do both TT and RR, would you still be inclined to come and do a TT event? Or would you rather do a Road Race?

[Cholewa]

And while Mark has your attention, would not having friday as a test day/race day/qualifying/whatever turn you away? It seems like making the weekend a day shorter will help us out immensely in terms of being able to afford the weekend.

[farrout]

And while Mark has your attention, would not having friday as a test day/race day/qualifying/whatever turn you away? It seems like making the weekend a day shorter will help us out immensely in terms of being able to afford the weekend.

Personally, I like the practice days. I am not a good enough driver that a practice day cannot help me. Plus once I have committed the time and $$$ to travel and race the weekend, a practice day is only the cost of the day itself.

Practice days are usually a loser for SCCA. At many tracks (RA, CMP?) the track conducte the practice day not SCCA. But a lot of drivers expect the practice day especially if they have not been to the track before (me included). When we ran nashville, a lot of us TVR guys manned the corner stations on Friday to defer costs and then raced on the weekend.