Barber News et al

[JohnW8]

An observation...~$400-450 for the weekend is being discussed here as if it is exorbitant, but that seems to be the prevailing rate for a weekend at Barber regardless of what organization you run with. I believe Road Atlanta events are similarly priced. I don't have the luxury of travelling to other tracks. If the club was somehow able to hold a TT/PDX at Barber at this rate I would be one of the first people to register.

I agree Rod, $400-$450 isn't too bad for a trackday at Barber since that is in line with a Road Race entry fee but if you're not having a Road Race you'd be hard pressed to find a road racer that would tow and pay and not have a race. I'm not sure that is clear, but it is in my head.

I would sign up for a TT/PDX at Barber. Now there's 2 of us! Only 143 more to commit!

I'll bring this up from the archives... presell an event and when we get to the magic break even number, have the event. 2 day PDX/TT/ClubTrials on Labor Day Weekend 2013. We just need 145 people to commit to the event prior to a given date. If we get there we get 50% down from entrants (for track up-front money). If we don't get the number before the given date we cancel, return funds and let the track go. Probably unlikely to work due to some administrative thing I don't know about but it's a thought.

[bimmertech]

I'm thinking a sat PDX for around $275 and a sun TT for the same entry fee. That way our instructor pool for the PDX isn't overworked on a "race" day. Also we could provide the run/work option for PDX'ers at say, $200. People can also be more flexible with their travel plans.

John, my experience is every track day I have ever run at Barber has had a large contingent of road racers present. I don't doubt there are some SCCA regulars who would opt for another race over a PDX, but I think we could make the numbers to actually hold the weekend.

Also, if we can't get enough TT'ers to commit, simply make it a Sat only PDX. There's nothing that obligates us to renting the whole weekend is there?

[Cholewa]

One of the necessities for their to be someone close is in case of fire. If you are a full straight away from a fire the driver could be cooked before you got there.




Because 5 Star owns the food rights at Barber.

That makes sense.

As far as pizza goes, i'm pretty sure that they wouldn't stop us from bringing in a pizza at the gate. I know ricky's brought in plenty over the years for thursday night, and I brought some in at the PBOC autocross. Granted it was only 5 or 6, but I don't see why we couldn't "informally" bring pizza to eat, you know, for personal consumption.

Either way, we're having a sit down with track management sometime soon, and all of these things will be discussed. The track appears to be reaching out to us to make the event profitable, but we'll see exactly what that means when we have our meeting.

[JohnW8]

I'm thinking a sat PDX for around $275 and a sun TT for the same entry fee. That way our instructor pool for the PDX isn't overworked on a "race" day. Also we could provide the run/work option for PDX'ers at say, $200. People can also be more flexible with their travel plans.

From a TT perspective I'd want 2 days of competition. Barber is where all the instructors hang out so the TT drivers I assume wouldn't be utilized as much as they are at TGPR. Run groups could be worked out to do both PDX and TT/CT over 2 days to give the sense of "more bang for the buck". I stayed away from the Road Atlanta 1 day TT because of the format. I'm not alone either, several regular TT folks opted to skip RA. I would assume Barber would be a level 4 track. Full TT license required.

[Cholewa]

I'm thinking a sat PDX for around $275 and a sun TT for the same entry fee. That way our instructor pool for the PDX isn't overworked on a "race" day. Also we could provide the run/work option for PDX'ers at say, $200. People can also be more flexible with their travel plans.

John, my experience is every track day I have ever run at Barber has had a large contingent of road racers present. I don't doubt there are some SCCA regulars who would opt for another race over a PDX, but I think we could make the numbers to actually hold the weekend.

Also, if we can't get enough TT'ers to commit, simply make it a Sat only PDX. There's nothing that obligates us to renting the whole weekend is there?

Not that I know of. Although I wouldn't be surprised if a 1 day rental was more expensive simply because they could have rented it to someone else for the weekend.

I'll bring this up from the archives... presell an event and when we get to the magic break even number, have the event. 2 day PDX/TT/ClubTrials on Labor Day Weekend 2013. We just need 145 people to commit to the event prior to a given date. If we get there we get 50% down from entrants (for track up-front money). If we don't get the number before the given date we cancel, return funds and let the track go. Probably unlikely to work due to some administrative thing I don't know about but it's a thought.

Not sure how the deposit with zoom works, but we pay 10k up front to hold the date, and I don't know if there's a cancellation fee or if it's refundable or what.

As far as racers not showing up, is there no way we could run a "tt" group with open passing? Isn't that at the discretion of the host region/stewards?

[rodhx]

To clarify my earlier statement...I don't really advocate not staffing certain corners as a rule, but it should remain an option if needed. I have worked several PDX-type events at Barber and they have never had two people per corner. Obviously racing has different requirements, but it can, and has, been done with a smaller than optimum work force.

I'll bring this up from the archives... presell an event and when we get to the magic break even number, have the event. 2 day PDX/TT/ClubTrials on Labor Day Weekend 2013. We just need 145 people to commit to the event prior to a given date. If we get there we get 50% down from entrants (for track up-front money). If we don't get the number before the given date we cancel, return funds and let the track go. Probably unlikely to work due to some administrative thing I don't know about but it's a thought.

Sounds like an option that deserves a serious look...

Either way, we're having a sit down with track management sometime soon, and all of these things will be discussed. The track appears to be reaching out to us to make the event profitable, but we'll see exactly what that means when we have our meeting.

I would like to be invited to said meeting. As long as we are talking to track management I want to pitch TDCs on their "empty" weekends or possibly even in conjunction with other events.

[JohnW8]

As far as racers not showing up, is there no way we could run a "tt" group with open passing? Isn't that at the discretion of the host region/stewards?

I think it's a TT rule to have designated passing zones. As far as I know there aren't any SCCA regions doing open passing for TT.

[e30Racer]

SEDIV TT committee must approve all supps for PDX/TT events. Idk what all it takes to get them approved, if it must be unanimous, or what.

[Cholewa]

I think it's a TT rule to have designated passing zones. As far as I know there aren't any SCCA regions doing open passing for TT.

Can the whole track be a passing zone? Or are there requirements for what a passing zone can consist of? Does it have to be a point by? I know it would be awkward to have one group be open passing and the rest be point by's on straights, but it's a thought.

Just talking out loud.


And Rod, i'll CC you on the email figuring everything out.

[JohnW8]

Can the whole track be a passing zone? Or are there requirements for what a passing zone can consist of? Does it have to be a point by? I know it would be awkward to have one group be open passing and the rest be point by's on straights, but it's a thought.

3.3.5. GENERAL EVENT GUIDELINES
All event rules should be reviewed with all participants at the beginning of each day of the event.

D. If passing zones are used, they should be clearly marked to be discernable at speed. Passing procedures should be clearly detailed in the Supplementary Regulations for the event or series.

Where I'm from that sounds like passing zones are optional. I assume there would need to be approval of the stewards before writing supps.

Advanced PDX and TT, to me would be fine with open passing, novices and intermediates would need to have passing zones. They already are in sensory overload and need the structure.

[kilgojr]

The TT passing zone rule IS optional. We had this discussion last year within the TT ranks. We were talking about NASA members not coming to our events because we have mandated passing zones. It was a big discussion within the group about open passing. I believe that it is in our TT section somewhere.

[kilgojr]

Rental Price of Barber

ALSO, I got the word from PBOC, they pay the same rate we do ($12,000 a day), whether they have Sat/Sun or a Charity attached or not. PBOC only rents the track for SAT/SUN and starts registration as soon as Barber is done with their events on Friday.

He also told me that when PBOC rents Daytona, its $33,000 a day....

[rodhx]

The TT passing zone rule IS optional.

Yeah, but is it optional as in "no passing at all if no passing zones"?

[e30Racer]

I'm pretty sure up to this point, there has never been a PDX/CT/TT that has had open passing. There are serious concerns from the TT safety committee about doing this.

I understand we can debate the pros and cons of having open passing on these forums, but I think we are getting a little bit ahead of ourselves. Fact is, we don't have money to rent Barber so while we keep talking about a mythical event that would be nice to put on, there are major hurdles to clear before we even get to the discussion if we are going to have an open passing group or not.

[JohnW8]

Before this discussion gets mothballed due to Mark's silly money issue I'd like also to throw this idea out there from Bobby Bitterman. A combined ECR/Restricted Regional/PDX/TT. The ECR people have been getting hurt for the same reason PDX/TT get hurt during a Road Race Weekend, no space in the schedule. So why not invite them to have a single or double ECR as well as a restricted Regional road race (Improved Touring (ITR, ITS, ITA, ITB, ITC and Spec Miata) The entry for ECR's are around $350 +$50 for the co-driver Regional entry at $425 for 2 races plus the TT group and PDX. This is a change from the usual Road Race weekend schedule and provides a place to play for the rest of club racing. It may be an appealing alternative to those folks (ITB, ITC) who don't like their groupings at other events.
Gives a home to the Endurance folks and provides room in the schedule for Time trial to step up to a big track and a place for PDX to inspire future racers.

Open passing can be controlled by the folks in the corner stations. IF you are being an a$$ you win a great big black flag and get to spend time with the chief steward explaining your actions. A full license TT shouldn't have any issues with open passing. Novice license holders and PDXers are a different matter and should be held to passing on the straights. We here to build up track experience, it sucks for the SCCA that one has to get a road racing license if you want to pass someone in a corner. We're better than that..aren't we?