Barber News et al

[e30Racer]

I see what you're saying Cholewa. I was just wondering if it "used" to be where practice and qualifying were on Saturday, then everyone races Sunday. If you did that, you could free up time for PDX and TT. Lots of time probably. The question is can you make up for the lost racer entries with the PDX and TT? I would like to think we could, but I don't really know for sure. There are a lot of "IF's" we can throw around, but how much can we risk on losing $20K on the event again?

I just hate that ATL is going to have 4!!!! races at Road Atl this year, and is kicking us to the curb. I understand why! But that doesn't mean I have to like it. I wish they would throw us a bone (read bone as $$money$$) and help us put on an event.

[e30Racer]

Everybody wants as many races as possible at their home track. Also, more races = more revenue for the Region, theoretically.

And I can understand how that would help. But I think when you start to have 3 or 4!!! events per year at a track, you start to diminish your pool of drivers from your region as well as neighboring regions to the detriment of your own events and everyone elses.

Twice the entry fees collected by the Region per driver, and twice the points or (much-less-important) track time for participants.

While it probably worked out great to begin with, I think its starting to bite us in the butt as this is what people have come to expect. Same as getting refunds if you're a no show or wreck on saturday and don't drive sunday.

Just giving opinions from the outside looking in. I'm not trying to say that things are being done in the wrong way or should be changed. I am just trying to understand why things are done they way the are, and how can we sustain racing in our region for years to come.

[jledford]

When I raced with WERA if you wrecked on Saturday and weren't able to get the bike fixed you got a credit for your Sunday races. No refund but a credit toward an entry at another event that year. It didn't have to be the same track, could be anywhere WERA ran.

Not sure if that would help or not? It might make people come to other weekends they hadn't planned to attend because they need to use their credit by the end of the year. If they don't use the credit you just keep the money.

[chuck schultz]

According to this list, Barber is not a Majors Tour race:

Eastern Conference
January 4-6 Sebring International Raceway*
April 19-21 VIRginia International Raceway*
May 3-5 Summit Point Motorsports Park
May 17-19 Road Atlanta
May 31-June 2 New Jersey Motorsports Park
July 5-7 Watkins Glen International*

Complete news release here - http://www.scca.com/news/index.cfm?cid=51199

[chuck schultz]

Barber -- unless there is a breakthrough . . . Atlanta will not have a race there

So this is the real subject that needs discussion.

If Atlanta doesn't want to be part of the Labor Day weekend, can ALSCCA take over alone, as we used to do, or are there other Regions willing to partner up to share the risk/reward?

[e30Racer]

There is no way we can put on the event by ourselves.

[kilgojr]

So this is the real subject that needs discussion.

If Atlanta doesn't want to be part of the Labor Day weekend, can ALSCCA take over alone, as we used to do, or are there other Regions willing to partner up to share the risk/reward?

It was discussed in the October meeting that Vince and the new Race chair in ATL would be discussing the race going forward, as ATL is not in the position to continue putting on a race, with us as well, that continues to lose money. We do not have enough money in our accounts to even rent Barber for the weekend, much less put on the entire show.

[Cholewa]

What they said.

Unless we budgeted for a legitimate no thrills event, which means no food for workers, no trophies, no anything other than show up and race, we simply can't afford to bet on the turnout. Either that, or we get a discounted rate on the track rental.

In the end, we would need to ensure the weekend cost no more than ~60k in order to ensure a break even in the case of weather scaring people away, or just bad timing at the end of the season, or whatever else causes high pre-registration and low turnout. It's simply too expensive the way it is to even bother, because the opportunity to lose money is much greater than the probability of breaking even or being in the black.

[JohnW8]

Also, more races = more revenue for the Region, theoretically.

Thats a bad theory. Like Walmart opening up stores within the same area, that doesn't make more shoppers it only dilutes the number of shoppers at each store.

[JohnW8]

Here's a revolutionary idea: no refunds for no - shows or cancellations unless somebody else fills the slot.

The idea of a non refundable charge for withdrawing or no show will only lead to folks waiting until they are absolutely positive they can make the event thereby giving race chairs ulcers. Even if it means paying a late registration fee. A $50 late fee is more tolerable than losing a $425 entry because your car wouldn't crank while trying to load the trailer.
Pre-registration will be pointless.

There's a lack of demand because there are too many races and the racers can pick and choose which event to attend, which leads to half empty paddocks and race chairs holding their stomachs guzzling pepto bismal. Fewer races in the division would encourage folks to attend simply because that's the only race nearby and at a given time.

I've heard stories about SEDIV loaning money to put on races in cash strapped regions.

[Cholewa]

There's a lack of demand because there are too many races and the racers can pick and choose which event to attend, which leads to half empty paddocks and race chairs holding their stomachs guzzling pepto bismal. Fewer races in the division would encourage folks to attend simply because that's the only race nearby and at a given time.

I think this might be the root of the problem. The calendar is too full. Too many choices dilute attendance and run people out of money before our event which is typically the last event before runoffs.

But in the end, that's not really our decision is it? If atlanta has the cash to put on 6 weekends, we can't/shouldn't stop them. We just need more affordable race tracks nearby. We need another TGPR so we can have new places to race inexpensively.

[nicktcr]

I can understand refunds from the driver's standpoint, but I can't believe we offer them for no-shows. Maybe the drift scene is just ran by people that don't care about the drivers as much, but they never offer refunds. You have to pre-register, and if you don't make it, you're out the cash. Sometimes they'll offer a credit towards future events (if you're really really nice), but usually it's pre-register only, or pre-register at a low rate, and something like 1 week til the event, the price nearly doubles for those that are less prepared.

Why not have pre-reg costs as non-refundable, but significantly cheaper. If you go ahead and reg up and pay up 2 months before the event, you get it for 40% cheaper or something, but it's non-refundable in the event you can't make it for whatever reason. Then a couple weeks before the event, the price goes way up. For me, I'd be super motivated to save the money and just pay early...then I'd have a hell of a lot more motivation to get the car ready and there!

[JohnW8]

I can understand refunds from the driver's standpoint, but I can't believe we offer them for no-shows. Maybe the drift scene is just ran by people that don't care about the drivers as much, but they never offer refunds. You have to pre-register, and if you don't make it, you're out the cash. Sometimes they'll offer a credit towards future events (if you're really really nice), but usually it's pre-register only, or pre-register at a low rate, and something like 1 week til the event, the price nearly doubles for those that are less prepared.

Why not have pre-reg costs as non-refundable, but significantly cheaper. If you go ahead and reg up and pay up 2 months before the event, you get it for 40% cheaper or something, but it's non-refundable in the event you can't make it for whatever reason. Then a couple weeks before the event, the price goes way up. For me, I'd be super motivated to save the money and just pay early...then I'd have a hell of a lot more motivation to get the car ready and there!

Thats a good idea NickyV.

[rodhx]

Let's see...a road race event run by autocrossers and borrowing ideas from drifters. Did anyone else feel the earth stop rotating just then? This only gets better if we borrow the rallyx classing structure. Three race run groups...stock, prepared, modified. Then plenty o'time for TT & PDX. At that point the entire SCCA world implodes..

[bmwe21]

SCCA's refund policy is great for the competitor! But must be a nightmare for the renter/organizer! I'm not aware of any other group that does this bike or car.