Current championship points

[bimmertech]

As the only consistant event running FSP driver over the last 3 years of doing auto-x in two seperate regions I can kinda see both sides of the fence. On the one side it kinda sucks to meet all the criteria, but denied a championship because of lack of consistant competition in that class. I'll get another FSPer for an event or two if I'm lucky at the beginning of the year and maybe 1 or two different FSPers staggered throughout the remainder of the year. According to the rules I may have had competition all year but because it came from 3-4 different drivers all those points accumulated don't really count towards a championship.

However I understand the structure and spirit of the championship. I understand it encourages you to stay in the game for the long haul. It encourages you to actually put an effort into improving your performance. It encourages you to understand and exploit every nuance in the rulebook to your advantage. It encourages you to become nationally competitive in the sport. With all I've learned over my short period of doing these events I really don't need the recognition or trophy for participating. Granted it would look nice in the garage, a trophy from a years worth of hard work and consistant fierce competition would really make a championship award worth it.

Of course, most cars will fit into multiple categories so you can find competition. I should really set my car up to run DSP if I wanted to be consistent and competetive across regions. However, ST is where the competition is locally and my car qualifies so that's where I run. In a year or two when the current novice DSP drivers move into the class I may also.

[zukitek]

I think that some of us may be getting a little too worked up over this .I blame myself for the reactions and the chain of events that led to the direction of this thread . I should have kept my fingers silent .

I was unaware of the rule and am not affected by it .It does not matter to my championship standings ,nor is it my intention to contes the rule . I was simply stating my opinion on the fairness of the rule .

Remember this ....we are an SCCA region and we need to at the very least support the class structure used nationally. That particular stipulation_ doesn't _in my opinion .

[Cholewa]

Gravy!

I had this issue last year and this year. At the start of last season, there was an ok turnout in HS, but as the events numbered on, I was typically the only person left in the class. I got a trophy, which was kind of hollow, but I competed in every race, progressed as a driver, and didn't complain.

This year, there was nobody in HS, and it got to the point where it was just silly to run in a class with no other drivers, so I bumped up into SM, since I was running kind of close to the back of the pack, and because I had 245's on kicking me out of ST. It's a lot more fun to race in a class with other people, it's a challenge to try and keep up, especially when the cars in the class are all modded and I'm still driving a stock car.

I wouldn't have it any other way though. I'm glad I was accepted to move over to SM midway through, and have enjoyed every event much more now that I am directly competing with other people.

[JohnW8]

OK. Since I wrote the rule into the supps I will explain the intent. For one to be considered a Champion you have to compete against someone and win. The intent of the rules was and is that if you are in a single car class you are encouraged to move to a more populated class. If you choose to not move you will still be eligible for your Class Championship albeit a somewhat hollow victory. Using Driver X as an example: They competed against others in their class and continued to compete even as the field thinned out over the course of the season. It is in the spirit of the rules to that Driver X competed in XStock successfully and consistently. They have the required number of events to qualify for the Championship. Regardless of whether the other competitors were there or not. That how the trophies will be considered for 2010. The next administration can update the supps as they see fit. With last years fiasco of I thought I had covered all the issues regarding the Class Championships. Apparently one issues slipped through the cracks. Consider this...If you have competed in a single car class at any 2010 ALSCCA Solo event, did you or did you not receive a trophy at the end of the day?

As far as I know every winner got a trophy. (Of some kind)

Do I need to revise the supps for the remaining 2 events of 2010 to make it official?

Also, Don't forget PAX. That crap was created for folks to see how they compare to other classes. That was a single car class driver could win his class then compare himself to the other classes and see how he did in the big picture sorta way. Competition on another level.

Are we good?

[claym]

It's simple to me: to qualify for a class championship a driver must run 50%+1 events in one class; and for a class to be championship eligible it must have at least two drivers who are championship qualified in that class.

And this is the beauty of the Tire PAX class...

If you decide to change cars during the season, you can still stay in the SAME class (tire PAX) with a different PAX #. So it doesn't matter which kind of car or mods (can drive a different car at each event- like Jordan), you always accumulate points in the same class

[rodhx]

I know Matt...just can't see that being an issue giving the wording. I think anyone bringing up that specific complaint should automatically receive a 60 point penalty

BTW, by giving a point penalty and not exclusions, this would not affect the class status regarding championship eligibility. My head hurts...time to go back to work

[TouringBubble]

Rod, I just brought that up because it's the same thing as last season ... the debate last season was because the rule said you have to run 1/2+1 events for a trophy. It didn't state that it had to be all in one class, which was the big disagreement. That rule was expanded for clarification this season. I was simply pointing out that the "competition" rule could be scrutinized with the same interpretation.

[rodhx]

While I agree with your post completely, I don't agree with the rule as written. The probleThen, there is another element ... and it's the same thing we ran in to last year ... interpretation. Does the rule mean you must have competition at all of YOUR 6 events, or just 6 events in that class during the season. Using GS as an example again, there have been multiple drivers in 5 total events ... but Katie (the current class leader) didn't attend one of those and ran ST at another, meaning she only had competition in 3 of her events. what does that mean according to the rule?

I careth not which way we go on this, but I do disagree that the current rules are unclear. It's simple to me: to qualify for a class championship a driver must run 50%+1 events in one class; and for a class to be championship eligible it must have at least two drivers who are championship qualified in that class. it is the number of events that qualifies drivers, not which events the drivers run and whether they had competition at them.

And Eric, this is only my second season, but it seems like these discussions are a Fall tradition!

Methinks this could be part of our lunch conversation tomorrow...

[TouringBubble]

I completely agree, and so does Katie. That's why she moved up a class and I asked if anyone would mind if she ran in ST rather than STX which has less participation than GS.

I know the rule as conceived to discourage people from purposely running an uncontested class, but I'm just not sure it's fair for those who run their proper class just because no one else runs with our low turnouts.

[jimkana]

Firstly, the rule as written means Katie gets a trophy because she ran enough events and there were multiple people in class during the season. Nothing says they all have to be at the same events, though the idea is that they will be.

Secondly, I have run in an unopposed/lightly contested class. I got a championship, but really it's pretty hollow. No sense wasting money on "bowling trophies" on that kind of stuff. And there was a guy who deliberately prepared a car to run in an unopposed class all year. I don't recall his name and wouldn't post it, but some of the older guys may remember him. That kind of foolishness should be discouraged.

Let's try to keep a sense of perspective with the rules and defer to tradition when interpreting them. Also keep in mind the spirit of the club which includes the encouragement of healthy competition and good sportsmanship. Those are archaic values these days, I know, but their value becomes more apparent with time.

[TouringBubble]

Can we please stop having these discussions at the end of the year? This is ridiculous.

The rules are the rules, everyone agreed to them by participating. For those who don't understand the value of rules for competitive events, just imagine that rules could be changed willy-nilly at any time. What would be the point in competing?

Also, rules need to be consistent across years so that a championship holds its value from year to year. If last year, the trophy is won for being fastest at the most events, and this year we decide to award it for playing tiddly-winks, what the heck is the value of the trophy? I wouldn't want it.

There is a rule that says no trophy/championship if you didn't COMPETE. So we don't have one.

If you just HAVE to "recognize effort," then lets just give everyone a "Certificate of Participation" with a big smiley face on it and we'll all feel just hunky-dory.

While I agree with your post completely, I don't agree with the rule as written. The problem is that drivers can get "shafted" by this rule based on the participation of others. GS this season is a great example.

In the past, there has been an okay GS turnout. This season, Katie, Jordan and the Honda guys all started out running GS ... so there was competition. Then, stuff happened and there was no one but Katie running GS.

Then, there is another element ... and it's the same thing we ran in to last year ... interpretation. Does the rule mean you must have competition at all of YOUR 6 events, or just 6 events in that class during the season. Using GS as an example again, there have been multiple drivers in 5 total events ... but Katie (the current class leader) didn't attend one of those and ran ST at another, meaning she only had competition in 3 of her events. what does that mean according to the rule?

I know using GS and Katie as an example shows a bias against the rule ... I admit it. I think she should get a trophy. But, that makes no difference regarding interpretation of the rule and the validity of my argument.

[OverDrive418]

As the only consistant event running FSP driver over the last 3 years of doing auto-x in two seperate regions I can kinda see both sides of the fence. On the one side it kinda sucks to meet all the criteria, but denied a championship because of lack of consistant competition in that class. I'll get another FSPer for an event or two if I'm lucky at the beginning of the year and maybe 1 or two different FSPers staggered throughout the remainder of the year. According to the rules I may have had competition all year but because it came from 3-4 different drivers all those points accumulated don't really count towards a championship.

However I understand the structure and spirit of the championship. I understand it encourages you to stay in the game for the long haul. It encourages you to actually put an effort into improving your performance. It encourages you to understand and exploit every nuance in the rulebook to your advantage. It encourages you to become nationally competitive in the sport. With all I've learned over my short period of doing these events I really don't need the recognition or trophy for participating. Granted it would look nice in the garage, a trophy from a years worth of hard work and consistant fierce competition would really make a championship award worth it.

[Welacey]

obamanomics

[jimkana]

Can we please stop having these discussions at the end of the year? This is ridiculous.

The rules are the rules, everyone agreed to them by participating. For those who don't understand the value of rules for competitive events, just imagine that rules could be changed willy-nilly at any time. What would be the point in competing?

Also, rules need to be consistent across years so that a championship holds its value from year to year. If last year, the trophy is won for being fastest at the most events, and this year we decide to award it for playing tiddly-winks, what the heck is the value of the trophy? I wouldn't want it.

There is a rule that says no trophy/championship if you didn't COMPETE. So we don't have one.

If you just HAVE to "recognize effort," then lets just give everyone a "Certificate of Participation" with a big smiley face on it and we'll all feel just hunky-dory.

[Cholewa]

We have an awards banquet in January where the trophies are given out, etc.

It's actually in december.